You can't see any beds!

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David Whyld
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You can't see any beds!

Post by David Whyld »

I've found that if I try and examine an object that's in another location, ADRIFT shouts at me "You can't see any beds!" The same goes if I try to listen or touch or hit an object in another location. It's always "You can't see any doors!" or "You can't see any lamps!" Aside from this being plain annoying, it really doesn't fit in with the tone of the game I'm writing.

I've overrode a great deal of the default responses in my game but I can't see where this one is hiding. When you examine an object that's in another location, it should say "You see no such thing." but instead I get "You can't see any chairs!"

Does anyone know where the text in question in found so I can get rid of it? Or at least tell me how to get rid of that awful exclamation mark at the end? I could just about put up with "You can't see any tables" but the exclamation mark has to go.
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DazaKiwi
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by DazaKiwi »

What about using text override for ! to Nothing which should cover you for other tasks as well, might be the simplest solution.
rovarsson
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by rovarsson »

Solution: make 'beds' in location. And all other objects that your PC should see. It's a chore, not a creative pleasure, but do it. Polish, polish, polish...

Also: another chore: go through the entire Standard Library by hand and replace all unwanted exclamation marks with periods. (Do this only if and when you're absolutely certain that you do not want the ADRIFT-parser shouting at the player in any other game you create in the version of Developer you are using now.)
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Denk
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by Denk »

The message that David mentions is hard-coded in ADRIFT, i.e. it is not a part of the standard library so it cannot be changed. The only solution is a text override. Luckily the problem only occurs if two or more objects have the same noun and none of those objects are in the same location as the player, e.g. if you have two chairs in the game and none of them can be seen, you get "You can't see any chairs!" when you try to interact with a chair that isn't here.

This just made me realize a problem that I should be aware of: Since I want players to feel that the parser is almost as good as games made with Inform, I put adjectives of objects in the noun list, so that the player only needs to type GET GREEN instead of typing GET GREEN WATERMELON or GET WATERMELON. The problem is if the game contains two objects with the same adjective, e.g. BROWN CHAIR and BROWN SOFA, and if you have put adjectives in the noun list of the objects, you will get "You can't see any browns!" if you try to interact with a brown object (e.g. X BROWN) when no brown objects are visible. I should then use a text override to say something like "You cannot see anything brown here.".
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Lazzah
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by Lazzah »

DazaKiwi wrote:What about using text override for ! to Nothing which should cover you for other tasks as well, might be the simplest solution.
Surely you should substitute a full stop (.) for the !, rather than Nothing, as doing that would leave the message without any punctuation?
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David Whyld
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by David Whyld »

rovarsson wrote:Solution: make 'beds' in location. And all other objects that your PC should see. It's a chore, not a creative pleasure, but do it. Polish, polish, polish...
That's not the issue here. There is a bed in the location in question but if you go to another location without a bed and X BED, you get the message "You can't see any beds!" Admittedly, you shouldn't be trying to X BED when there are none visible, but as I typed it during testing it's reasonable to assume players might type it as well.
Denk wrote:The message that David mentions is hard-coded in ADRIFT, i.e. it is not a part of the standard library so it cannot be changed.
Well, that's a pain. I searched for it but when I couldn't find it anywhere I just figured it was hidden in some obscure place. As it's hard-coded, I might have to go with the text override method.

But that adds other problems, mainly that sometimes you want to put an exclamation mark in. For dramatic effect! And the text override would get rid of them all.

I wonder why Campbell coded it like this. Surely it would make more sense to give writers control over this kind of thing rather than saddling them with the default text? I really wish he'd put in an appearance one of these days and fix a few of the outstanding issues.
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by rovarsson »

I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought that PC was in a location close enough to the beds so that PC should be able to see the beds. (I have spent a lot of time creating such duplicate/faraway objects.)
I really thought I had seen this ADRIFT reply in the restrictions of the X objects task, but no.
I'll dig around some more.
I really don't understand why people are suggesting using a text override to replace "!" with "." . I too dislike being yelled at by the game, but I want to have exclamation marks in my game when I want them. This is why I suggested going through the entire standard library and replacing the exclamation marks there. But apparently the message you want to change isn't there... Weird.
David Whyld
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by David Whyld »

It's certainly annoying. I was under the impression that all of the default text in ADRIFT was somewhere in the library, but it seems not. Some of it is apparently hard-coded and can't be changed.

Text overrides are an option, but I'm reluctant to do it because you might need an exclamation mark or two. Getting rid of them all to stop ADRIFT shouting at the player also strips out every other exclamation mark in the game, but it might be the lesser of the two evils.
Last edited by David Whyld on Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Denk
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by Denk »

You don't have to override all exclamation marks. It is only relevant for those objects where more objects share the same nouns, e.g. "beds!", "tables!" etc.
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by Lazzah »

Denk wrote:You don't have to override all exclamation marks. It is only relevant for those objects where more objects share the same nouns, e.g. "beds!", "tables!" etc.
You could create a text override for "s!" which would do that, but of course you would have to ensure that none of the instances where you do want an exclamation mark end with "s!". :haha:
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David Whyld
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by David Whyld »

Lazzah wrote:
Denk wrote:You don't have to override all exclamation marks. It is only relevant for those objects where more objects share the same nouns, e.g. "beds!", "tables!" etc.
You could create a text override for "s!" which would do that, but of course you would have to ensure that none of the instances where you do want an exclamation mark end with "s!". :haha:
That's not a bad idea actually. I just checked and there's only one instance of an exclamation mark following an 's' in my whole game so I've just slightly reworded that one line and problem solved! It's certainly a lot less hassle than all the other ideas I was thinking about. Thanks.
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by rovarsson »

David Whyld wrote:Text overrides are an option, but I'm reluctant to do it because you might need an exclamation mark or two. Getting rid of them all to stop ADRIFT shouting at the player also strips out every other exclamation mark in the game, but it might be the lesser of the two evils.
Does it replace every exclamation mark? Or would the override affect only ADRIFT-generated output (like restriction messages)? A conversation with a hostile NPC would be very unconvincing without angry shouting.

The suggestion of overriding "s!" with "." looks good, but it would sure cramp my style not to be able to write "you bastards!" every two or three sentences. :)
David Whyld
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by David Whyld »

It's just a case of slightly rewording some of the text, which I think is easier than stripping out all of the exclamation marks from the whole game. In my case, it was literally one sentence, which is no big deal. I'll just have to bear it in mind that I can't have "s!" in the game from now on or it'll come across as "s." which doesn't have the same effect.

Lesser of two evils really. No way is perfect but this looks to be the best way short of someone figuring out how to edit that hard-coded text.
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Denk
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by Denk »

rovarsson wrote:Does it replace every exclamation mark? Or would the override affect only ADRIFT-generated output (like restriction messages)?
You can override all output from ADRIFT hard-coded or not.
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Re: You can't see any beds!

Post by Campbell »

Hmm. There are a few places where I've had to hard code responses, where the output is created from the logic in the parser, rather than any task output. I was planning on creating a list of all these text snippets which could be edited in Developer. I'm sure there's an item for it somewhere.
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