Combined Library Release 2 Demo (beta)

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Denk
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Combined Library Release 2 Demo (beta)

Post by Denk »

EDIT: In post 2 below (after this post), links are given to the first release of the Combined Library.
If you find problems, please let me know.

---------------------------------
Hi all,

I am considering improving the standard library further, using saabie's library (4th of September 2020) as a starting point. I intend to update it often, so people can get the best possible standard library ASAP. I think it needs its own name, as saabie might keep working on his version and Campbell on his version, but as we don't know when these will be available, I have decided to work on my own version, which I have decided to call "Combined Library" as I try to take all the good stuff from other libraries.

Please propose things you would like to see fixed.

Currently, I think saabie's library has the following problems:

1. Inventory must be improved
If you are carrying an object inside an object, which is inside another object, and type INVENTORY you can get a response like this:
"You are wearing a backpack, and are carrying nothing. Inside the backpack is a box and a hammer"
But the game should say that the hammer is inside the box, not inside the backpack.
- The good news is that it worked well in v5.0.35.3 so I just have to apply the old inventory task instead.

2. Take things from carried container
If you are carrying a container with an object and you try to TAKE "object", you are told that you are already carrying the object. This can be fixed, so that the player takes the object out of the container.
- This fix should be part of the library

3. Characters and objects with same noun
Characters and objects should be allowed to have the same noun, without causing problems. As it is now, if a statue of a man allows the player to type "X MAN", i.e. "man" is on the noun list for the statue, then a character in another location cannot be addressed with "man" when examining it. "X MAN" will then give: "You can't see the statue of a man." even though character "man" is in the same location as the player.
- currently a problem for EXAMINE and probably GET/TAKE too.

4. Allow for "Take STATIC object" override
Add a new general task, which by default says "You can't take the 'object'." when you try and take static objects. This task can be overridden to give more interesting descriptions when you try to take a specific static object. Also, actions could be carried out.
- I guess people will start overiding this instead of using text overrides.
Last edited by Denk on Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Denk
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Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by Denk »

The Combined Library has just been released. It combines the best of the current state of saabie's library and the standard library included in v.5.0.36.4.

You can base a new game on the taf-file:
Combined Library Release 1.taf
(23.71 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Or you can download it as a module (amf-file) and add it to your list of libraries and then select it instead of the other libraries. Should work with time library and money library but the Combined Library must be loaded first.

The module version can be found here: http://www.adrift.co/game/1587

Known issue:
The choice of INVENTORY solves a problem with saabie's library but introduces another known issue. If you are holding a closed container, which might contain something, INVENTORY SAYS (in case it is a box): "Nothing is on or inside the box." even if it contains something. The author must use a text override to get rid of this sentence. Hopefully, a better solution can be found in the future.
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by DazaKiwi »

So we add your Combined Library and untick/unselect Standard Library?
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by Denk »

DazaKiwi wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:29 pm So we add your Combined Library and untick/unselect Standard Library?
Yes, exactly.
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by DazaKiwi »

Ok as I thought. Thanks for putting this up.
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by R2T1 »

Is there a list of what has been done so far. ie. what has been added, removed or merged.
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by Denk »

R2T1 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:21 am Is there a list of what has been done so far. ie. what has been added, removed or merged.
Yes, when you load the library, a task called README appears in the task folder. Double click it and you will see this:
README for Combined Library version 1 (20_Oct_2020):
--------------------------------------
Compared to saabie's library of 4th September 2020, the following things have been improved:
1. Inventory handles objects within objects within objects better now.
2. The player can now get things from carried containers by type TAKE 'OBJECT', i.e. it isn't necessary to add FROM 'CONTAINER' anymore.
3. EXAMINE now works for both characters and objects, if a character and an object share the same noun.
4. TAKE now works for both characters and objects, if a character and an object share the same noun.
5. General task "Take STATIC Objects" created, where it is a restriction that the object is static. If so, print "You can't take %object%.name.", for the purpose of being overwritten when trying to take static objects.
6. Ensures that you cannot put an object inside itself.
The modified tasks/items are:
Inventory
Put objects on others
Remove before put
Take Objects From Object (Lazy)
Put objects in others
Take Objects (Parent Task)
Take Objects From Character (Lazy)
Character: Player

NEW:
Take STATIC Objects
Take fix (common noun for character and object)
Examine fix when characters and objects have common nouns
If you need to know which changes saabie made to the library compared to v5.0.35.3, it (most of it?) is described in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11936
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by R2T1 »

Thanks Denk.
I hadn't yet applied it so I hadn't seen this task.

Looks like you have been busy.
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IMPORTANT

Post by Denk »

IMPORTANT: I think this has been said before, but be careful when you play around with libraries. You can ruin old games if you don't do it correctly.

Thus always make a backup before you try to update the standard library in a new game. If you do not intend to update the standard library in a game, you must untick libraries, otherwise, ADRIFT will auto-update the library files, which might ruin your game!

This is not a bug in any library but it is the way ADRIFT works, i.e. it auto-updates library files, even if you choose "No" to update old library files! (at least when you in Settings have chosen "Prompt per library")

So I always recommend that you untick all libraries when loading a game into the Developer. Only apply libraries when you create new games. You are of course welcome to update the library in an old game but please make a backup first and check thoroughly if everything works as intended.
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Denk
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Combined Library v2 discussion

Post by Denk »

Hi all,

I am looking into the next release of Combined Library and would like to hear your opinions.

CONVERSATION
So far, there are tasks making it possible to:
* ASK character ABOUT something
* TELL character ABOUT something

Unlike saabie's library, I recommend that the word ABOUT becomes mandatory in these tasks.
(That is more correct English and avoids interfering with the following. Thanks Lazzah.)

In addition, I am thinking about implementing:
* ASK character FOR %text% (e.g. the player might ask for some food)
* TELL character TO %text% (e.g. TELL PLAYER TO GO NORTH etc.)

Also, currently, the task "Tell character about subject" accepts the following commands:
tell %character% [about] %text%
%character%{,} %text%

The last line is for giving commands, similar to a TELL TO task and should therefore NOT be in a TELL ABOUT task.
Thus %character%{,} %text% should be removed.

I guess we can implement any command we like in the library, but commands that are rarely used, should probably not be implemented, as game authors would then have to decide on the right response to commands which are not needed in the game.

If you have an opinion on anything related to the Combined Library, please share your opinions. Thanks :Thanks:
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Re: Combined Library v2 discussion

Post by Denk »

Bumping this a final time, in case anyone has requests. If there are no responses, I will soon upload version 2 and then leave it for now.
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Re: Combined Library Release 1 out now

Post by rovarsson »

README for Combined Library version 1 (20_Oct_2020):
--------------------------------------
Compared to saabie's library of 4th September 2020, the following things have been improved:
1. Inventory handles objects within objects within objects better now.
2. The player can now get things from carried containers by type TAKE 'OBJECT', i.e. it isn't necessary to add FROM 'CONTAINER' anymore.
3. EXAMINE now works for both characters and objects, if a character and an object share the same noun.
4. TAKE now works for both characters and objects, if a character and an object share the same noun.
5. General task "Take STATIC Objects" created, where it is a restriction that the object is static. If so, print "You can't take %object%.name.", for the purpose of being overwritten when trying to take static objects.
6. Ensures that you cannot put an object inside itself.
I laughed my ass off with number six while I was testing Axe Of Kolt!

Also while testing: I remember I found it very easy to get hints/pointers from the game by "parserfishing": Typing random commands (X DOG, TALK TO WIZARD, TAKE SWORD,...) in random locations. Sometimes there was useful information in the reply ("The sword is still stuck in the rock.")
This is related to the topic started by David Whyld "You can't see any beds!" i think.
Last edited by rovarsson on Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Combined Library v2 discussion

Post by Denk »

Someone proposed (thanks!) to add SHOOT and to remove SQUEEZE. Comments are welcome. If there are no comments, these two proposals will probably be applied in version 2.
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Re: Combined Library v2 discussion

Post by Lazzah »

Why remove SQUEEZE? That is a verb I use in Return To Castle Coris. Just because it is there doesn't mean the author has to use it in their game. A synonym of SHOOT should be FIRE.
The Axe of Kolt, The Spectre of Castle Coris, The Fortress of Fear, Die Feuerfaust, The Lost Children, Run, Bronwynn, Run, The Call of the Shaman, The Lost Labyrinth of Lazaitch, Magnetic Moon, Starship Quest, Revenge of the Space Pirates
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Re: Combined Library v2 discussion

Post by Denk »

The more people give feedback, the better :)

Okay, so I will add SHOOT but keep SQUEEZE.

We should try to include all common commands and exclude all rare commands. Especially for newcomers, it is probably not so easy to create their own verbs "correctly". It is probably easier to delete verbs, at least the more simple ones. You rarely want to delete the more advanced verbs.

With the new information on the Inform and TADS libraries (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&p=108792#p108792 )

I will wait to release a new version until we have discussed what can be learned from those libraries.
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The Bash Saga:
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