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[HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

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[HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby RenatoDias » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:53 am

Hello, everyone. I need some help on something.

I have a bomb defusal minigame and I have the following text on the bomb defusal manual. The defusal happens on mission 3(which will be in the demo):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y1g6ZBfHQIrF5goQWhCnKH1AVegf3ZSlsB5Wets0Dng/edit?usp=sharing

Do you guys think the tips are clear? Shallow? Please give me some opinion. I don't want players to be frustrated for not knowing what to do when mission 3 is launched.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby P/o Prune » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:34 am

I've just had a look at it, and it looks understandable to me. So go right ahead. :yeah:
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby Lazzah » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:25 am

Sorry, but I hardly understood a word of the Glyphs section! :? Why make it so confusing, we're not all young well-educated college types. I am 66 years old and had a basic education.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby R2T1 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:12 am

I agree with Lazzah. I'm of the same vintage and had no idea what the Glyph section is saying let alone what I would do if I came across it.
Perhaps it might make more sense when seen "in the game" but as a stand-alone piece????
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby RenatoDias » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:13 am

The icons are based on the Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes manual. Lazzah, R2T1, you guys have tips on how to improve?
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby David Whyld » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:38 am

I have to admit, I didn't understand a bit of that. If I was left to defuse a bomb based on those hints, we'd all be dead.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby R2T1 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:10 am

Not knowing what the "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes" manual is, I have no idea how to improve it.
Sorry.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby RenatoDias » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:48 am

R2T1 wrote:Not knowing what the "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes" manual is, I have no idea how to improve it.
Sorry.

It's a game where a duo of players defuse a bomb. One reads the manual, the other operates the bomb, R2T1.

David, you have any tips to improve?
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby David Whyld » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:59 am

To improve it, I'd just make it easier. What's wrong with just typing DEFUSE BOMB? Overly complicating very simple things is something I'd never been fond of. For example, see a game called "The King of Shreds and Patches". Very good game but features some ridiculously complicated puzzles. One involves loading a gun. Instead of simply typing LOAD GUN, you're expected to carry out a dozen different moves to get it loaded. By the time I'd finally got the damn thing loaded, I was about ready to quit in frustration.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby R2T1 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:04 am

As I've never heard of the game, its possible others haven't either. Was it a board game or a computer game? Either way, I've never seen nor heard of it in Australia. Which is something else to keep in mind when creating a game to reach the widest audience... As David said above, keep it simple and don't expect that everyone will know what you know.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby David Whyld » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:09 am

I'd never heard of it, either, so unless it was all explained in the game I wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

One thing to keep in mind when you're writing a game is that just because you know about something doesn't mean that other people will. Even if it's common knowledge where you come from, it might be unheard of to someone living in another country.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby RenatoDias » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:45 am

David, when developing the bomb puzzle, I thought about two ways:
1-Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, a well known PC/console game about that all over the world, which you and a partner have to communicate to defuse a bomb. Regarded by real life defusal specialists as one of the best games in the area.
2-Metal Gear Solid 2, where the player(Raiden) defuses bombs by freezing them. This one would happen in a large location, where you'd have to walk through it and find sixteen different bombs and type FREEZE BOMB.

R2T1, a multiplayer PC/console game.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby David Whyld » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:31 pm

I don't know what you want me to say. It might be well known to you but I've still never heard of it and while I have heard of Metal Gear Solid 2, I've never played it.
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby RenatoDias » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:57 pm

I want to know if that's understandable for you guys or others who may play it. If I put only DEFUSE BOMB, where is the danger on that? On the current system, any wrong press, wrong wire cut or wrong code is a gameover, but the code itself is there on the player's face.
Any ways I can have that sense of danger and still make it easier to understand how to solve?
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Re: [HELP NEEDED] Bomb defusal and player hints

Postby Denk » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:43 pm

Okay, I think I roughly understand the basics of the game.

Glyphs:
I have no knowledge of "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes" either. I can imagine the "glyph module" even though I don't know what a "tampa bay" looks like. I just happen to know most of the greek alphabet so I know the Omega symbol but you shouldn't assume that every body knows that. In ADRIFT you could show the display with all four symbols graphically so the player can see how it looks like.

However, the tip "Use the rule of X" does mean nothing to me. You seem to assume that the player knows what "Use the rule of X" mean. We don't, so you have to explain that part to the player.

I understand the wire cutting and code module.

So with enough effort, you could explain how the 3 "sections" (glyphs, wires, codes) works. The question is then to make a good game out of it.

David's example with the complicated process of loading a gun, while LOAD GUN should have been sufficient, is a good example. The worst case is if the game assumes that the player knows how to load a gun. Better, but still not really any fun, is if the "recipe" for loading a gun can be found somewhere. If the player is to follow a "recipe", there is no reason to implement the entire process. Once the recipe has been found, the player character should know what to do, and then LOAD GUN should be sufficient. A comprehensive process should only be implemented if it is necessary in order to apply some brilliant puzzle which requires access to the individual steps of the process, e.g. if the player should get the idea to put the bullets upside down in the gun or something (I have no idea what would happen then ;-) ) to solve a puzzle.

And if the gun should be loaded more than once in exactly the same manner, is should be sufficient to LOAD GUN the second time around.

What we cannot see from your little example, is the details on how the player should know which glyphs to press, which code to type and which wires to cut.

You have given some tips but I am uncertain how they should be interpreted.

E.g. you give the tip "TIP: Use the digits on the bomb model to form the number code to defuse the module.". So I suppose I could find those (three?) digits on the bomb. Let's say there are three digits. This result in 6 different combinations. Should the player simply guess the right combination by trial and error? If so that isn't much fun. On the other hand, if the player can deduct the right combination e.g. from some coded letter or something, so that it is not necessary to guess, it could be fun.

The same is the case with cutting the wires and pressing the right glyphs. Guessing should not be necessary. But if the right solutions can be found by solving some other puzzles it might be fun.
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