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POINTS

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Re: POINTS

Postby Denk » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:56 pm

For the point system to survive, I think 2 things are important:

1. Keep it simple - Po. Prune is doing it manually
2. Clear rules - avoid awarding points based on personal opinions

I think we should skip birthday-points since everyone has birthday once a year and so it becomes a measure of how long you have been a drifter since 2018. And even a completely passive drifter will earn points then, making it hard for newbies to catch up.

Also, I would prefer if games are rewarded equally. A big game can be bad and a small game can be good etc. How good/bad is a matter of taste.
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Re: POINTS

Postby Lumin » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:07 pm

Denk wrote:Also, I would prefer if games are rewarded equally. A big game can be bad and a small game can be good etc. How good/bad is a matter of taste.


Except for situations where good / bad is obvious and objective. Even if we don't get waves of illiterate noobs anymore like we did in the old days (They've all moved to Twine) it's better to figure out these things now and try to account for possibilities than to have to be constantly adjusting the system on the fly.

But no one is saying a small game can't be good either, it's more of matter of a massive difference in effort and time. Mini games have always been a distinct thing from regular ones.

Also, my opinion is worth more than twice that of yours and I say you're wrong. Case closed. ]:)
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Re: POINTS

Postby David Whyld » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:10 pm

I'm not sure how you'd award points for good / bad games anyway. (If one person says a game is great and someone else says it's bad, which opinion counts?) Or big / small games for that matter. What counts as a big game for one person is completely different for someone else. If you include sound and graphics, you're easily going to hit whatever limit counts as a big game and thus get extra points, whereas if you write pure text games you won't (unless the limit is very low).

Saying that, it does seem kind of unfair if a 5kb game which someone threw together in half an hour gets the same number of points as some 300kb epic that took months to write.

Maybe some provisional boundaries (not included sound and graphics):

Less than 50kb: 20 points.
51 - 100kb: 25 points.
101 - 200kb: 30 points.
201 - 300kb: 35 points.
301kb+ - 40 points.

Worth implementing or more hassle than it's worth?
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Re: POINTS

Postby Lumin » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:20 pm

David Whyld wrote:Saying that, it does seem kind of unfair if a 5kb game which someone threw together in half an hour gets the same number of points as some 300kb epic that took months to write.


I mean file size isn't as reliable an indicator anymore for a few reasons, but if there's ever any real question whether something is a mini game, then it's NOT an obvious case and so treat it like a full one, whatever. But I don't think there'd be any mistaking, say, THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE as representing the same amount of effort as a proper game.

Po should probably just set some kind of range, like 5-25 or whatever and use common sense and his own judgment within that. Just like rating a game, it won't ever be exactly precise but that's not a big deal.

...of course, that means someone would have to actually play the games to determine their content. The true brick wall here.
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Re: POINTS

Postby Lumin » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:23 pm

Just saying, I am prepared to helpfully expose any loopholes in the system by raking in however many points are necessary to prove myself right and everyone wise wrong by the end of the week. :angel:
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Re: POINTS

Postby David Whyld » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:58 pm

Lumin wrote:But I don't think there'd be any mistaking, say, THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE as representing the same amount of effort as a proper game.


Y'know, I'm half-tempted to write a game called THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE and make it epic and pour my heart into it and make it the best damn game ever just to prove you wrong :)

Lumin wrote:...of course, that means someone would have to actually play the games to determine their content. The true brick wall here.


And that's one mighty big brick wall.
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Re: POINTS

Postby Lumin » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:23 pm

David Whyld wrote:
Lumin wrote:But I don't think there'd be any mistaking, say, THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE as representing the same amount of effort as a proper game.


Y'know, I'm half-tempted to write a game called THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE and make it epic and pour my heart into it and make it the best damn game ever just to prove you wrong :)


Oh, it's real: http://www.adrift.co/game/1071 Just did a search by size in ascending order and picked the one with the best title.
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Re: POINTS

Postby David Whyld » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:26 pm

Aw shucks. Someone beat me to it. Well, I guess that’s one epic amazing game I won’t be writing.
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Re: POINTS

Postby P/o Prune » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:22 am

David Whyld wrote:Aw shucks. Someone beat me to it. Well, I guess that’s one epic amazing game I won’t be writing.


Couldn't you substitute the banana with and orange? rofl
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Re: POINTS

Postby P/o Prune » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:30 am

David Whyld wrote:I'm not sure how you'd award points for good / bad games anyway. (If one person says a game is great and someone else says it's bad, which opinion counts?) Or big / small games for that matter. What counts as a big game for one person is completely different for someone else. If you include sound and graphics, you're easily going to hit whatever limit counts as a big game and thus get extra points, whereas if you write pure text games you won't (unless the limit is very low).

Saying that, it does seem kind of unfair if a 5kb game which someone threw together in half an hour gets the same number of points as some 300kb epic that took months to write.

Maybe some provisional boundaries (not included sound and graphics):

Less than 50kb: 20 points.
51 - 100kb: 25 points.
101 - 200kb: 30 points.
201 - 300kb: 35 points.
301kb+ - 40 points.

Worth implementing or more hassle than it's worth?


This is not a bad idea, David. And I'm sure it's doable. But how do you exclude the sound and graphic in a game?
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Re: POINTS

Postby David Whyld » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:14 am

Lumin wrote:
David Whyld wrote:
Lumin wrote:But I don't think there'd be any mistaking, say, THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE as representing the same amount of effort as a proper game.


Y'know, I'm half-tempted to write a game called THE FOGGY BANANA ADVENTURE and make it epic and pour my heart into it and make it the best damn game ever just to prove you wrong :)


Oh, it's real: http://www.adrift.co/game/1071 Just did a search by size in ascending order and picked the one with the best title.


3kb! My god, someone really put some time and effort into that one and no mistake.

Po Prune wrote:Couldn't you substitute the banana with and orange? rofl


It's just not the same thing.

Po Prune wrote:This is not a bad idea, David. And I'm sure it's doable. But how do you exclude the sound and graphic in a game?


I... have no idea. I guess if the game isn't password protected, you could open it up in the Generator, delete all the sound and graphics and see what's left.

Hmmm... I'm just remembering a previous thread on the size of games from a while back. I think v5 games are 40% or so bigger than v4 games due to the way the new version is designed. So if someone wrote a game with v4, but then converted it to v5, which one do you count when determining its size?

Ah, problems upon problems.
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Re: POINTS

Postby P/o Prune » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:17 am

David Whyld wrote:
Po Prune wrote:This is not a bad idea, David. And I'm sure it's doable. But how do you exclude the sound and graphic in a game?


I... have no idea. I guess if the game isn't password protected, you could open it up in the Generator, delete all the sound and graphics and see what's left.

Hmmm... I'm just remembering a previous thread on the size of games from a while back. I think v5 games are 40% or so bigger than v4 games due to the way the new version is designed. So if someone wrote a game with v4, but then converted it to v5, which one do you count when determining its size?

Ah, problems upon problems.

That's what keeps us young, don't you know? :wink:
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Re: POINTS

Postby Lumin » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:34 am

File size is not going to work. I mean I guess if the game came with a walk through that would be the best indicator. Short of...you know...*shudder* ... actually playing the game.
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Re: POINTS

Postby David Whyld » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:00 pm

There's no real indication even with a walkthrough because it doesn't tell you how long the game actually is. A game might have only a handful of commands needed to complete it, but if they're locked behind difficult puzzles it could still provide a great deal of gameplay. Likewise, a game might need a thousand commands to complete, but if 990 of them are "go east", there's not much gameplay there.

Bah. There's no easy way of doing it.
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Re: POINTS

Postby P/o Prune » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:03 pm

I guess we can all agree on the fact that the evaluation of a game depends on the eyes that see (or person that play)
Maybe this is actually a matter for the "Game Discussion" thread? Wouldn't that be the right place to discuss the amount of points for games? (Darn, I'm smart! :D )

We will stay with David's suggestion:, using it as a guideline:

Less than 50kb: 20 points.
51 - 100kb: 25 points.
101 - 200kb: 30 points.
201 - 300kb: 35 points.
301kb+ - 40 points.

and then discuss how many points to give the actual game...
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