ADRIFT Forum


The place to discuss the ADRIFT Interactive Fiction toolkit

Climb Tree

Here you can share your "work in progress" with your fellow Drifters.

Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:35 am

I think that a game should always give a meaningful response to "TALK TO character". If nothing else, it should inform the player how the player should communicate with characters.

How to implement a TALK TO command is described in this thread: http://forum.adrift.co/viewtopic.php?f=14&p=106015#p106015

The SAY/ASK/TELL system can be handled either by tasks or through the conversation tab for each character or a combination of the two. Unfortunately, the conversation tab is hardly explained anywhere.

The best explanation I think can be found at http://help.adrift.co/
In here, go to index and double-click on Conversation.

You can also find a little bit on the ADRIFT Wiki:
http://wiki.adrift.co/Adding_Characters
and
http://wiki.adrift.co/%22How_do_I...%3F%22#Give_commands_to_characters_using_format_.22Karen.2C_get_me_a_coffee.22
and
http://wiki.adrift.co/%22How_do_I...%3F%22#Create_default_conversations_that_can_be_shared_by_several_characters
and
http://wiki.adrift.co/Conversations_with_other_characters


Instead of using the conversation tabs, you can override these tasks:
* Ask character about subject
* Tell character about something
* Say something to character

You can then use variables to keep track of where you are in a conversation. This method seems to be the most flexible though the conversation tab can be useful too.


Regarding the conversation tab, here are a few things that puzzled me to begin with:

* "General Command": Inside a conversation topic, you can tick "General Command". This requires that the player types "SAY command". The command field uses the same syntax as general task commands, so you can for instance type [hello/hi] in the command field. This topic is therefore triggered if the player types SAY HELLO or SAY HI.

* "Ask": Inside a conversation topic, you can tick "Ask". The command field mentioned above is now renamed to Keywords. The keywords are not like commands, but should be separated by commas, e.g. "hand,arm,head" etc. [leave out the quotation marks]

* Conversation tree: By placing e.g. topic_1 on top of topic_2 using the mouse, topic_1 will be moved onto the topic_2 branch. This means that the character will only reply to topic_1 if you have just asked/told the character about topic_2.

I hope this makes sense :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bash Saga:
1. The Dragon Diamond 2. The Way Home 3. Stone of Wisdom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
Denk
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Hjørring, Denmark
Points: 251

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:48 am

Thanks! I'll be sure to look at those links. And I'll keep toying with the conversation tab in my Play Ground.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:09 am

Hi all,

Progress on The Tree is slow but steady. I'm still wrestling with the conversation thing, but that's more a design-decision-matter than a technical one. (short replies to ASK/TELL, detailed in further ASK/TELL-topics vs. TALK TO with a list of topics and longer replies.)
I have added an event called 'frivolity' to make small animals pass by or far-off sounds be heard every 3-7 turns or so. Had a bit of trouble getting the 'OneOf'-code right but it seems to be working now. (Thanks Lazzah).
Today I will be implementing looking at faraway stuff from a high vantage point. How would you go about this: PC is standing on a high rock and can see several other locations. I want the PC to be able to X/LOOK AT those locations and objects in them, but not interact with them in any other way. A) I could create the objects in location "On Boulder" and write Specific Tasks and descriptions, taking care to override SEARCH and other tasks. B) I could include all visible locations in a location group and write alternative descriptions for visible objects with the restriction 'Player Character must be at location On Boulder'. C) I could do it all with General Tasks so objects don't have to exist in my location (group). I'm afraid this would bring with it a bunch of Priority issues though.
Any thoughts?
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lazzah » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:57 pm

rovarsson wrote:Hi all,

Progress on The Tree is slow but steady. I'm still wrestling with the conversation thing, but that's more a design-decision-matter than a technical one. (short replies to ASK/TELL, detailed in further ASK/TELL-topics vs. TALK TO with a list of topics and longer replies.)
I have added an event called 'frivolity' to make small animals pass by or far-off sounds be heard every 3-7 turns or so. Had a bit of trouble getting the 'OneOf'-code right but it seems to be working now. (Thanks Lazzah).
Today I will be implementing looking at faraway stuff from a high vantage point. How would you go about this: PC is standing on a high rock and can see several other locations. I want the PC to be able to X/LOOK AT those locations and objects in them, but not interact with them in any other way. A) I could create the objects in location "On Boulder" and write Specific Tasks and descriptions, taking care to override SEARCH and other tasks. B) I could include all visible locations in a location group and write alternative descriptions for visible objects with the restriction 'Player Character must be at location On Boulder'. C) I could do it all with General Tasks so objects don't have to exist in my location (group). I'm afraid this would bring with it a bunch of Priority issues though.
Any thoughts?

My initial thought is why make work for yourself by being able to see these faraway objects in the first place? :whistle:
The Axe of Kolt, The Spectre of Castle Coris, The Fortress of Fear, Die Feuerfaust, The Lost Children, Run, Bronwynn, Run, The Call of the Shaman, The Lost Labyrinth of Lazaitch, Magnetic Moon, Starship Quest, Revenge of the Space Pirates
User avatar
Lazzah
Moderator
 
Posts: 2353
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:54 am
Location: Clacton-on-Sea, Essex
Points: 65

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:19 pm

Lazzah,

There are cat-permeable doors to delete that require your attention. I know you would set up a big folding screen (that is resistant to sword-attacks) all around the top of the boulder to avoid having to implement a view. I, on the other hand, consider myself an Artiste, willing to suffer for my work. (insert arrogant smiley here)
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:23 pm

Hi there,

The playground in TT is now implemented (until I think of something else to do on a swing). For the faraway things to see I just made objects in the location itself (no location groups) and I have overridden the most obvious tasks (SEARCH, PULL and PUSH, SMELL,...) Every time I come back to Developer now I add some new overrides.
Conversation still not created. I'm making a conversation-tree on paper now with arrows from topic to topic, and I'm writing out entire branches of topics in full in one monologue to later split up in different ASK ABOUT tasks. (It gives me more oversight and consistency to write a whole page on a subject and subdidvide that than to write 2-sentence responces to a dozen ASKs.
Next up: creating a family of bungtrolls ('objects' or 'characters'? I don't want to allow too much interaction, but some would be necessary.) I will also attempt to create a healthy walk around the park for my main NPC, with stops at the pub and the lake shore. Any pitfalls I should look out for?
Overall, I'm happy with the way it's progressing, and my Adrift-feel is steadily improving.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:30 pm

Hi all,

I've finally started on conversations. I'm going for elaborate ASK/TELL. I'm using the Conversations-tab in the character box. It's going well, I like that all the topics with their keywords are winth the character instead of in separate tasks. I don''t know how to make a task to respond to all the unimportant stuff the player might ask about though. When I make a task ASK NPC ABOUT %text% it overrides all the topics in the conversation task. Can I put %text% in the keywords-box in the conversation tab?
For the rest: I made a family of bungtrolls, wrote out their home and some other locations. The first elements of the chapter one overarching puzzle are in place. It's going good.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:33 am

Hi there!

Making good progress on the conversations. I had some problems implementing 'ASK ABOUT unimportant/unexpected topic', but Denk pointed me to the thread with the solution. (Thank you.) I don't get the nested topics, but I don't need them (yet).
Three minor puzzles created and tested.
Now on to the next locations and working towards the overarching chapter one puzzle.
Good times.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lumin » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:55 am

In my WIP I'm completely ignoring the built in stuff and just doing conversations with menus made from tasks.

But glad to hear you found a solution you like and the game is otherwise progressing well!
User avatar
Lumin
 
Posts: 2115
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:48 pm
Points: 49

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 pm

All puzzles so far tested, fixed, tested again and approved... for the correct (i.e. my) solution.

Note to self and everyone building a game: The player will be spending 75 % of her playing time trying other stuff than the sequences you thought out.

Make sure she gets responses that make sense to those things too, preferably with little nudges if she's on the right track. If possible, allow alternative solutions that make sense, even if this means extra implementing work.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lumin » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:53 pm

rovarsson wrote:Note to self and everyone building a game: The player will be spending 75 % of her playing time trying other stuff than the sequences you thought out.

Make sure she gets responses that make sense to those things too, preferably with little nudges if she's on the right track. If possible, allow alternative solutions that make sense, even if this means extra implementing work.


Yep, that is all a big part of game design and pacing that's generated a lot of discussion over the years. It's a thing that's pretty unique to the IF format and probably the most difficult thing to tackle without extensive playtesting from multiple people, which unfortunately isn't easily available in a small community. Knowing where to put in all those subtle little nudges can be a huge factor in the overall play experience.
User avatar
Lumin
 
Posts: 2115
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:48 pm
Points: 49

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Hello there.

TT is progressing nicely. I'm now building a model of the Tree that moves when the player turns a crank and pulls a lever. A sort of plaything with many details that will hold some hints for the later stages of the game. Here, it's very important for me to go slow, visualize the machine/model I want, and have fun making it with all the details I want. Also: purple prose. Lots of purple prose.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lumin » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:01 pm

That's a really cool idea for providing hints actually. And playing with strange gadgets is always a fun thing to do in IF games.
User avatar
Lumin
 
Posts: 2115
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:48 pm
Points: 49

Re: Climb Tree

Postby DazaKiwi » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:21 pm

Basic Summary of creating conversations;

When creating an "Ask" or "Tell" topics use commas, between, each, keyword, and last keyword to have one at the end also so that it is counted.

When creating a "General" topic this will actually be a "Say" command ingame, is like a normal general command with [ brackets ] NO commas "," are used.

Conversation Nodes are created via dragging another conversation to top of another conversation to make it a subnode.
If you want a nested conversation to continue down the node tree tick "Stay in this conversation node" in action of that conversation and drag another new conversation to the last subnode to add to the tree. The last node can remain unticked in the action (which is the case by default) this will return the convo to the parent conversation if asked again about same topic.

I have created a demo for you and others to play and look at as well as a more detailed desc inside it and other tips.
Attachments
NestedConversations_v1.taf
(18.19 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
User avatar
DazaKiwi
 
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:05 am
Location: New Zealand
Points: 61

Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:24 am

Hi all,

Lumin: Glad you like the idea. I loved playing with the transformation machines in Emily Short's "Metamorphoses". I'm not going to try to make anything that even comes close to that complexity though.

DazaKiwi: Thanks for the recap. Especially for the nested topics. This will come in very helpful.

I'm still working on the model. Hard choices about how many layers of implementation to create, how deep the player has to EXAMINE to find helpful details, nudges and hints.
Also I'm torn between creating an event that starts when the player has pulled the lever and that then shows the model/machine in action, one detail per turn. Or I could make a fiddly machine with little buttons for different details. In that case, I'm worried about an overload of details for the player, making it difficult to distinguish the important nudges.

Most importantly: I'm still having fun creating.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

PreviousNext

Return to W.I.P.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest