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Climb Tree

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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:47 pm

Hi,

I decided against the complete fiddly machine. (Actually, the player is restricted from doing any touching at all.) Not because of the work. I don't mind that. I went with an event highlighting different aspects and situations in the model tree in a specific order because I can guide the player's attention better that way, and ensure he/she/it sees the important bits. I combined this with deep implementation and lots of details to discover to make up for not getting to TICKLE FLUFFY LAMB'S NOSE WITH PINK OSTRITCH FEATHER or some other fiddly thing he/she/it might want to do.

I tested the model in both the on and off states, X-ing everything while the event was running and not, shut down the event midway through in the three different ways that are possible... Everything seems to work, the bones are there and holding. My descriptions will see some revisions, fleshing out over the next few days.

And: next location: The Inn. (Actually the inn terrace.)

I'll order drinks for all of you so they are waiting for you on the bar when you play my game.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lumin » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:07 am

I'll have a frozen margarita.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:32 am

Ask for it. It'll be there.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:38 pm

The Inn Terrace and its objects are fully described. I'm putting off SEARCH and similar tasks because I feel something brewing in the back of my head. It might be a frozen margharita.
Instead I'm adding Player Movement-tasks. Many of the games I love most describe the protagonist while he or she moves between locations. "You jump backward on one foot northward along the pink-balloon-strewn path with a finger in each ear." instead of plain old "You move north." I find this really helps pulling the narrative together and holding the atmosphere of the game.
Bit of a tightrope excercise though. IF is not about movement between locations, it's about what to do in those locations. Too much purple prose describing the beautiful marble columns and statues by the side of the road while passing by is offputting.
I'm going with moderate amounts of detail to strengthen atmosphere the first time the player takes a path, then more general alternative descriptions. (All written by me, so there is a small amount of variation on the "You move southeast"-theme.)

Thoughts?
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby The0didactus » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:58 pm

This is a nice place for alternative descriptions. Here's what I'd do

Make a variable called "Roller" and an event that sets "roller" to a number between 1-10.

Then add a BOATLOAD of alternative descriptions to the move task...one for each location you want a special description for. The parameters for the alternative description being
* Player must be at location
* Roller must be 10

Now, one out of every 10 times the player moves, they get a little variety.

The balance is hard to strike without looking tedious...every time you move from the garden to the bog you get your boot stuck in mud? Of course not...but one out of every ten times? so long as any one description only happens 1-2 times per game, this can add some nice ambiance.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:28 pm

Thanks TheOdidactus! That sounds like a good idea. Now I have one default detailed description and one more neutral alternative. Adding a one in so many chance that something minor happens along the way would indeed heighten the ambiance.
Will try. If things don't work, I'll give you a help-signal. (which you are of course free to ignore)
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lazzah » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:57 am

The0didactus wrote:This is a nice place for alternative descriptions. Here's what I'd do

Make a variable called "Roller" and an event that sets "roller" to a number between 1-10.

Then add a BOATLOAD of alternative descriptions to the move task...one for each location you want a special description for. The parameters for the alternative description being
* Player must be at location
* Roller must be 10

Now, one out of every 10 times the player moves, they get a little variety.

The balance is hard to strike without looking tedious...every time you move from the garden to the bog you get your boot stuck in mud? Of course not...but one out of every ten times? so long as any one description only happens 1-2 times per game, this can add some nice ambiance.

Hi The0,

Any chance you can knock up a demo to show us how to do this, I can't quite figure it out from your description.

:Thanks:
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby The0didactus » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:46 pm

yep here's a demo.
The only thing that's different from my description above is that I made the roller get set to (7, 10) so there are slightly more frequent alternative descriptions. Really...1-10 might produce ones that are too rare for the work.

This demo takes place in my apartment.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lazzah » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:55 pm

Thanks, but the alternative descriptions in Player Movement should be set to "Start Description With", not "Append To Previous". :whistle:
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:51 pm

rovarsson wrote: Instead I'm adding Player Movement-tasks. Many of the games I love most describe the protagonist while he or she moves between locations. "You jump backward on one foot northward along the pink-balloon-strewn path with a finger in each ear." instead of plain old "You move north." I find this really helps pulling the narrative together and holding the atmosphere of the game.

Thoughts?

Just want to add, in case you are not aware, "Run Before"-tasks are very practical for this purpose, i.e. a Specific Task where you have changed "Override" to "Run Before" Player Movement. After changing it to a "Run Before" task, you should also untick "Display parent message". Thus the message in the "Run Before"-task will be printed before moving the player, and the standard message(=parent message), e.g. "You move east." is not displayed.

This method can be applied with the randomization The0didactus proposed using alternative descriptions, or you can limit a task to cover only one location and/or direction or a group of locations and/or directions. For instance, you might want to display a certain message the first time the player walks down a path, another message the second time and yet another the third time. You would then need to increment a variable each time you walk down that path. This could be done under "actions" in the "Run Before"-task covering that exact path.

Hope this makes sense.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:13 pm

Denk, I see what you are getting at, but I fail to grasp what the practical difference would be with just overriding a Player Movement-task. The parent message is not displayed with the overrides I use, and I can use the 'Display only once'&'Start description with' -method to show different alternative descriptions the first, second... time the player takes a certain path. No variable needed.
Am I missing something?
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:43 pm

rovarsson wrote:Denk, I see what you are getting at, but I fail to grasp what the practical difference would be with just overriding a Player Movement-task. The parent message is not displayed with the overrides I use, and I can use the 'Display only once'&'Start description with' -method to show different alternative descriptions the first, second... time the player takes a certain path. No variable needed.
Am I missing something?

If you Override the Player Movement task, you will also have to add two actions: Move the Player, and Look. That isn't necessary with the "Run Before"-option. Not a big deal, but many may not be aware of the "Run Before"-option, which is why I mentioned it - I like it. But you are right, it can be done with Override as well.

Regarding showing the first, then second, then third alternative description it was just meant as an example where it might be needed to change a variable. I wasn't aware that you could have more than one 'only display once'-description since I would think that they would both execute at the same time. However, I have just tested it and I see that you can handle three or more alternative descriptions using "Only display once" as you say. However, the order of the alternative descriptions must be the opposite of what I expected, and if you combine 'only display once' with restrictions, ADRIFT begins to act very strange. So I only apply 'Only display once' in very simple situations.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lumin » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:22 pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the order is weird. I set up a hunger display using alternate descriptions, then wound up have to swap them all around because it was causing some really strange behavior.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:21 pm

I have been using up to fifteen alternative descriptions to add some variation to LOOK UNDER, LOOK BETWEEN etc (Once in a while a nymph or fae pops up). No restrictions needed there, and the order is not particularly important either.
In my last location I have a situation where I use 'Only display once' for a third alternative description with restrictions. I haven't gotten around to testing the location in full, but apparently I'll have to be extra thorough.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:20 pm

I think the problem occurs whenever an alternative description, which is not the last alternative description, is set to "Only Display Once'. E.g. if Alternative Description 2 is set to "Only Display Once", Alternative descriptions 3,4,... will be ignored until Alternative Description 2 has been displayed.

It could look like this:
adrift Code: Select all
Living Room
Type TEST two or more times to see the behaviour of the alternative descriptions.    
 
> test
Default message
Alternative description 1
Alternative description 2
 
 
> test
Default message
Alternative description 1
Alternative description 3
Alternative Description 4

Here Alternative description 2 was set to "Only display once". If alternative description 2 furthermore has an unfulfilled restriction, ADRIFT will keep ignoring Alternative description 3 and 4 until the restriction of alternative description 2 has been fulfilled and alternative description 2 has been displayed. I don't regard this as very logical but that seems to be the behaviour of ADRIFT.
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