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Climb Tree

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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:17 am

So, if I understand correctly, in that case the 'Only display once' description should be the very last one?

I've been having a problem with PUT object IN POUCH. If the object is already in the pouch, I get (First removing 'object' from the linen pouch') "You put the 'object' in the pouch." I deleted all specific PUT IN overrides, so ADRIFT should revert to the default PUT IN task. I still get the same message, and when I want to TAKE OBJECT, "You are already carrying the 'object'". I'll go over it with a fine-toothed comb later today. Maybe I have a task or restriction in the way in the wrong folder.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:43 pm

rovarsson wrote:So, if I understand correctly, in that case the 'Only display once' description should be the very last one?

At least you should be aware that if the 'Only display once' description is not the very last one, the alternative descriptions that follow will be ignored until the 'Only display once' description has been displayed. I don't see the usefulness of this behaviour, so I would only use 'Only display once' in the very last one.

rovarsson wrote:I've been having a problem with PUT object IN POUCH. If the object is already in the pouch, I get (First removing 'object' from the linen pouch') "You put the 'object' in the pouch." I deleted all specific PUT IN overrides, so ADRIFT should revert to the default PUT IN task.

Unfortunately, this is the behaviour of the standard library. You can fix it e.g. by adding restrictions to the tasks "Remove before put" and "Put objects in others". If you are having problems making it work, let me know and I can make a demo.
Last edited by Denk on Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lazzah » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:49 pm

rovarsson wrote:So, if I understand correctly, in that case the 'Only display once' description should be the very last one?

I've been having a problem with PUT object IN POUCH. If the object is already in the pouch, I get (First removing 'object' from the linen pouch') "You put the 'object' in the pouch." I deleted all specific PUT IN overrides, so ADRIFT should revert to the default PUT IN task. I still get the same message, and when I want to TAKE OBJECT, "You are already carrying the 'object'". I'll go over it with a fine-toothed comb later today. Maybe I have a task or restriction in the way in the wrong folder.

Unfortunately, one of the "bugs" in ADRIFT is that if your PC is carrying a container, e.g. a holdall, then ADRIFT is hard-wired to consider that any object inside the bag (e.g. a ball) is also carried by the PC. Thus if you just type, e.g., GET BALL then ADRIFT will respond with "You are already carrying the ball'". The player must specifically type GET BALL FROM HOLDALL in order to take the ball from the holdall.

However, if the PC is WEARING the holdall, the objects inside are NOT considered to also be carried and if you type GET BALL then the TAKE OBJECT FROM OBJECT (LAZY) task will kick in and the ball is taken from the holdall.

I think this situation is wrong and would like it fixed in a future upgrade, even if we only get the option to have it either way. I have an enhancement request at: http://www.adrift.co/bug/19163 Please vote it up if you agree with me.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lazzah » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:55 pm

rovarsson wrote:So, if I understand correctly, in that case the 'Only display once' description should be the very last one?

Don't forget that there is a "Return to Default" option you can tick in the last alternative description so that you can cycle through the descriptions again.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lazzah » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:13 pm

Denk wrote:Unfortunately, this is the behaviour of the standard library. You can fix it e.g. by adding restrictions to the tasks "Remove before put" and "Put objects in others". If you are having problems making it work, let me know and I can make a demo.

Something else I didn't know about!! Yes please a demo would be useful, could you please note ion the demo which restrictions you added. Thanks. :bravo: :Thanks:
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:39 pm

Lazzah wrote:
Denk wrote:Unfortunately, this is the behaviour of the standard library. You can fix it e.g. by adding restrictions to the tasks "Remove before put" and "Put objects in others". If you are having problems making it work, let me know and I can make a demo.

Something else I didn't know about!! Yes please a demo would be useful, could you please note ion the demo which restrictions you added. Thanks. :bravo: :Thanks:

I just realized that I wasn't being precise about what could be fixed.

Rovarsson wrote:
"I've been having a problem with PUT object IN POUCH. If the object is already in the pouch, I get (First removing 'object' from the linen pouch') "You put the 'object' in the pouch." I deleted all specific PUT IN overrides, so ADRIFT should revert to the default PUT IN task. I still get the same message, and when I want to TAKE OBJECT, "You are already carrying the 'object'". I'll go over it with a fine-toothed comb later today. Maybe I have a task or restriction in the way in the wrong folder."

I was referring to the text in bold above, i.e. the fact that you take something from the pouch, just to put it back in the pouch. This was what I know can be fixed. I haven't looked into how to fix that TAKE OBJECT will not take objects which are carried in containers. I might have a look at that later.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:04 pm

'Remove before put' fixed ('Referenced objects must not be inside Referenced object2').

I prohibited TAKE OFF POUCH, so the TAKE FROM task automatically takes over when pouch is worn.

And I could surely look this up, but how do I start a reply with %object% or %character% capitalised? Trying to get rid of ADRIFT's' Okay' in 'Okay, you take...'
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:34 pm

rovarsson wrote:And I could surely look this up, but how do I start a reply with %object% or %character% capitalised? Trying to get rid of ADRIFT's' Okay' in 'Okay, you take...'

adrift Code: Select all
Eg.:
<#PCASE(%object%.Name)#>
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:47 pm

Lazzah wrote:
Denk wrote:Unfortunately, this is the behaviour of the standard library. You can fix it e.g. by adding restrictions to the tasks "Remove before put" and "Put objects in others". If you are having problems making it work, let me know and I can make a demo.

Something else I didn't know about!! Yes please a demo would be useful, could you please note ion the demo which restrictions you added. Thanks. :bravo: :Thanks:

Both issues have been solved. I don't want to hijack Rovarsson's thread so I made another thread: http://forum.adrift.co/viewtopic.php?f=14&p=107947#p107947
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:39 pm

Thank you for not hijacking my thread. I would have paid ransom or gotten you a getaway helicopter if you had asked for it. Instead, you gave us a thread with some very welcome solutions which I will implement forthwith.

My current project: The swing in the Play Ground is broken, oh my! PC must fix it.
My first plan really shows that I'm not computer-thinking enough yet. I sometimes get stuck with the idea that the thing I'm writing about or programming is somewhere in my laptop, in miniature form. There really is a mini-table that a mini-me is mini-jumping onto. So I was going to take the mini-swing set that was already in my computer and describe it and its tasks in a bunch of other ways, relying on restrictions to get the right description for the broken swing ( and all of its parts and tasks.)

Then I remembered Larry Horsfield had an object 'lit lamp' and an object 'unlit lamp' in AoK an a lamp in my head lit up.
My approach is to create a twin object for the swing set ( 'Broken Swing Set' if you will) in 'Hidden', together with all of its twin tasks with appropriate responses. When PC does the right triggering task, I swap 'Swing Set' with 'Broken Swing Set'.

I think there will be much less danger of bugginess and confusion that way, both in the game and in my own head.

Thoughts?

Thanks for following up on my WIP, it helps with practical problems and motivational ones alike.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Denk » Thu May 07, 2020 1:18 pm

rovarsson wrote:My approach is to create a twin object for the swing set ( 'Broken Swing Set' if you will) in 'Hidden', together with all of its twin tasks with appropriate responses. When PC does the right triggering task, I swap 'Swing Set' with 'Broken Swing Set'.

I think there will be much less danger of bugginess and confusion that way, both in the game and in my own head.

Thoughts?

I think it is perfectly okay to use that technique. There can be a minor drawback. E.g. in my own game you could have the following responses:
adrift Code: Select all
> TURN OFF LAMP
You turn off the lamp.
 
PUT IT IN BACKPACK
(the lit lamp)
You are not holding that!

In this very specific situation, the word "it" will not work because ADRIFT thinks that "it" refers to the lit lamp, not the unlit lamp.

Edit: To avoid this situation, just make sure that the lit lamp and the unlit lamp have the same adjective and first noun. The 2nd, 3rd etc nouns can deviate if you like.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Fri May 08, 2020 10:17 am

Yes, I have seen this issue with the lit and unlit lamp objects too. I didn't think of the workaround you suggest.

I'm experiencing some trouble with the swapping technique of 'Swing Set' and 'Broken Swing Set'. The swing sets get swapped, but the Parts Of Object 'Broken Swing Set' don't get moved with the 'Broken Swing Set'.

More in the ADRIFT 5 thread, topic "Moving Parts Of Object" out of Hidden".
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Sun May 10, 2020 9:23 pm

Phew! The swapping of the swings is now officially worked out. Simple problem really: as a reminder to myself, I had put <broken> after the adjective of each 'Broken Swing Set'-object. Denk (thank you Denk! *waves*) pointed out that ADRIFT takes this into account as part of the name for the object, and since I have 'a low swing' and 'a high swing', the player would have to type the adjective to avoid disambiguation issues. But the adjective had that <broken> in it, which the player cannot type.

I really thought ADRIFT would ignore the reminder to myself between the <>, but there you go. I deleted it and just put big marker-X's after the nouns. So big I won't forget to type them while testing or erase them when done.

Another problem came up when CLIMBing my swingset though: CLIMB UP didn't work, I got the restriction message for CLIMB DOWN (PC must be in location Y) When I fiddled around with the priorities, I got the opposite result. CLIMB DOWN gave the restriction message for CLIMB UP. I threw the whole thing around and created separate CLIMB UP and CLIMB DOWN general tasks. This is really weird though, because in my intro-scene I had no problem with CLIMB UP/DOWN TREE. Exact same location restriction, exact same actions, no interference there. Anyhow, that's settled now.

My problemshooting escapades have led me to be sitting at my computer several days after I thought I had completed the first complex puzzle of my game, without having tested the mechanics of the puzzle itself. Tomorrow, tomorrow, you're only a day away, I guess.

Bright side: I learned a lot about ADRIFT the past few days.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby rovarsson » Mon May 18, 2020 8:30 pm

(...jumps from Repaired Swing Set with a triple salto mortale, nails the landing and takes a bow...)

The Swing Set puzzle is up and running! I tested, tweeked, tested, shuffled around restrictions, tested, put in a variable, tested,... and it worked! Yaay.
I'm talking about the mechanics now. I still have to add some alternative descriptions and rewrite some already existing ones, but the bones of the puzzle are there.

I am also fully aware that I have not even covered a lot of commands that need implementing. As I have said before: 75% of the player's time is spent trying "wrong" commands, exploring what works and what doesn't. If these commands are along the correct lines, the player deserves a "Close, but no cigar"-response. I really don't mind the work, It'll be nice to just write some descriptions for tasks that have no repercussions on the state of the game (i.e. that have no 'actions'). That doesn't mean I can let my guard down restriction-wise of course...

After that: that frozen margherita for Lumin in the tavern. And the rest of the interior, and the woman who runs it, and the books PC has to get a hold of,...

Loving this.
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Re: Climb Tree

Postby Lumin » Tue May 19, 2020 12:12 pm

If these commands are along the correct lines, the player deserves a "Close, but no cigar"-response.


I'm of two minds about this. I think that sort of thing IS an important element of making these games fun to play and in giving a polished feel. But at the same time if it's one of those situations where an attempted solution to a puzzle is "close enough" that the only thing I'm doing wrong is using the wrong wording while the intent is obviously still the same, and being picked up on by the game, I'm liable to wonder why the author didn't just make the thing I typed a synonym in the first place.

Very much looking forward to that margarita though. I could go for one today in fact, it's going to be in the 90s here all week.
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