ADRIFT Forum


The place to discuss the ADRIFT Interactive Fiction toolkit

Opinions please!

The place to chat about ideas, writing, this forum, or anything related to Interactive Fiction that isn't specific to ADRIFT.

Please also visit the Interactive Fiction Community Forum for further discussions.

Opinions please!

Postby Lazzah » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:10 am

In all of the adventure games that I have written, both on the Spectrum and using ADRIFT, and - AFAICR - all of the adventure games that I have played over the last 40 years, if an object you want to use is in a container you have to physically take the object out of the container before you can use it.

One of my playtesters - whose name will not be revealed to protect the (not-so) innocent ( :haha: ) - tells me that in his opinion this is illogical. To his way of thinking, if the item is in the player's possession, i.e. either being held or in a container, then an action involving use of the object should execute.

What is YOUR opinion of this?
The Axe of Kolt, The Spectre of Castle Coris, The Fortress of Fear, Die Feuerfaust, The Lost Children, Run, Bronwynn, Run, The Call of the Shaman, The Lost Labyrinth of Lazaitch, Magnetic Moon, Starship Quest, Revenge of the Space Pirates
User avatar
Lazzah
Moderator
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:54 am
Location: Clacton-on-Sea, Essex
Points: 65

Re: Opinions please!

Postby rovarsson » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:18 am

"Anchorhead" by Michael Gentry went pretty far with this sort of thing. Using an object in your possession made you automatically take it out of the container ( "after taking the lantern out of your coat pocket" ), and going North through a locked door automatically checked if you had the right key, and if you did, unlocked and opened the door and moved you to the North-location.

First time I played it (16 years ago as a complete newbie), I took this for granted. Now I know it isn't. It worked fantastically in that game: no distractions from the eerie atmosphere and the building tension. In an Adventure Quest game though, I kinda like fumbling for my keys and cursing to myself when I forget to take the Orb of HobbledyGobbledy out of my bottomless purse before casting a spell.
rovarsson
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Points: 15

Re: Opinions please!

Postby ralphmerridew » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:54 pm

@rovarsson: I think that's mostly standard in Inform. See Curses! by Graham Nelson.

@Lazzah: I actually think even Zork had a certain degree of this. For example, if you try to READ an object in the room, the game would try to TAKE it first.
Bloodhounds can make you laugh and cuss in the same breath. They are endearing, faithful, and can sling drool ten feet in any direction. -- Virginia Lanier
User avatar
ralphmerridew
 
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:56 pm
Location: Missouri
Points: 10

Re: Opinions please!

Postby P/o Prune » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:07 am

I can see Lazzah's point (yes, I'm the ( not-so) innocent one :whistle: )

I believe it's a matter of how deep into detail you want to go and also, a matter of taste (preference)
What if, instead of a backpack, it was your pocket? Would you >take key from pocket, before you could unlock the door? or would you simply >unlock the door
My point is that if you carry the object in your container, you already know it's there. Ergo, it would be natural (I think) that if you come across a situation where you need the object you'd >use object
Having to take it out of the container first, is just an extra command which in this case is unnecessary.

Another example:
If the player is in a location with a door leading north, to me, it would be ok to just >go north without having to open the door first. (It may be necessary to give a warning if there's a danger of some kind behind the door, of course)
D-Day in progress 86Kb (Slowly drifting)
Just a Fairy Tale: 138Kb
User avatar
P/o Prune
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4629
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:18 am
Location: Denmark
Points: 93

Re: Opinions please!

Postby Lazzah » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:39 am

This is the sort of thing adventure players and authors will never agree on. If you want all this automation in your game, it's your choice. If, as a player, you can't be bothered to type GET GRAPNEL before throwing it, or typing GET KEY - UNLOCK DOOR - OPEN DOOR before going north through a door, then don't play the game.

I remember fondly the heated discussions we had back in the 1990's at the Adventurer's Conventions in Birmingham and Coventry on the EXAMINE and SEARCH issue. Some authors and players steadfastly regarded these verbs as being the same word/action, whereas the rest of us - who of course were absolutely correct - regarded them as two separate verbs (as per the definitions in the OED).
The Axe of Kolt, The Spectre of Castle Coris, The Fortress of Fear, Die Feuerfaust, The Lost Children, Run, Bronwynn, Run, The Call of the Shaman, The Lost Labyrinth of Lazaitch, Magnetic Moon, Starship Quest, Revenge of the Space Pirates
User avatar
Lazzah
Moderator
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:54 am
Location: Clacton-on-Sea, Essex
Points: 65

Re: Opinions please!

Postby Denk » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:15 am

I think it depends very much on the game. If there are a lot of doors you constantly have to lock and unlock and you need to put the keys back in your pocket every time for some reason, I would be grateful if the game included some automation of this. On the other hand, if you only have to open a door once, I think it is completely overkill to implement automatic opening of doors if it is not done easily. Still, some might complain about it.

In saabie's library you will (if chosen) automatically unlock doors when you try to open them if you have the key. I haven't tested this though. Still, there is no automatic opening of doors when trying to go through them. Could be fun to make a small module with this functionality though :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bash Saga:
1. The Dragon Diamond 2. The Way Home 3. Stone of Wisdom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
Denk
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Hjørring, Denmark
Points: 251

Re: Opinions please!

Postby P/o Prune » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:10 pm

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I wouldn't play a game if I had to take whatever object from my backpack, or pocket before being able to use it. When I made the remark to Lazzah it was merely meant as an observation, and not a criticism :yeah:
D-Day in progress 86Kb (Slowly drifting)
Just a Fairy Tale: 138Kb
User avatar
P/o Prune
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4629
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:18 am
Location: Denmark
Points: 93


Return to General IF

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests