Page 1 of 2

Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:12 am
by P/o Prune
I'm wondering if this little thing is too cumbersome for players.

In my game the player will come across an old canon that s/he needs to load and fire.
As it is now s/he has to load it in the right order. Gunpowder, ball, wig etc. and each thing has to be found.
Is this legit in IF, or should I just use >load canon and let it happen automatically if all the items has been collected?

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:22 am
by Lumin
Nah I like the idea of making a little puzzle out of it actually. As long as the items are in places that remotely make sense.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:15 am
by P/o Prune
Lumin wrote:Nah I like the idea of making a little puzzle out of it actually. As long as the items are in places that remotely make sense.

The items are all placed in locations close to one another.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:33 am
by R2T1
I agree with Lumin. Make the puzzle.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:13 pm
by P/o Prune
It's already implemented. I wanted to know if it was a little too much and if I should remove it.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:14 pm
by David Whyld
I'd go with the opposite actually. Why make it more complicated than it needs to be?

To open a door in IF games, you type OPEN DOOR and that's fine. You don't need to type WALK UP TO DOOR, LIFT HAND, TURN HANDLE, PULL DOOR, OPEN DOOR.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:15 pm
by Lumin
You don't typically load a gun without bullets though.

And it's not like most people are familiar with the details of loading a cannon, just hand waving it away seems like a wasted opportunity for a puzzle plus passing up a chance to get in more setting details to show off how much homework he's done.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:48 pm
by P/o Prune
The idea behind the loading of the canon is that getting the various item are puzzles in themselves. For instance, the canon ball needed isn't just lying around in plain view. The player has to find a way to get it.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:53 am
by R2T1
In that case Po Prune, so long as they have all the requisite bits, just a LOAD CANNON and FIRE CANNON should be sufficient. Perhaps you can describe the loading process following the LOAD CANNON command.

(By the way, CANNON is the correct spelling for this gun as CANON refers to a rule or law e.g. the Bible is the canon of accepted scriptures.)

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:44 am
by Lumin
On second thought I'm actually neutral on this if the real puzzle is finding the items, but if it's already implemented might as well leave it be.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:20 am
by P/o Prune
Lumin wrote:On second thought I'm actually neutral on this if the real puzzle is finding the items, but if it's already implemented might as well leave it be.

You could say that it's two puzzles in one.. Buy one, get one free kind of thing :wink:
The puzzles of finding the various items )gun powder, cannon (thanks R2T1 :wink: ) ball and on top of that you have to find and make a fuse for the damned thing. On top of that you have to load the cannon in the correct order. It shouldn't be so hard. Normally you'd put the gunpowder down the barrel before the cannon ball, right? and there's only one place the fuse can go. rofl

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:22 am
by rotter
Making a puzzle out of finding the items for the weapon sounds fine. But then making a puzzle out of firing it would drive me mad if I was playing the game.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:28 am
by Lumin
I mean but that part's not so much a 'puzzle' as it is a couple extra details in the whole simulation of manipulating objects area that IF is kind of known for.

Anyway I feel like we're all overthinking this and that no one would've bat an eye if it were encountered in the game itself, unless there was some obnoxious verb guessing thing going on. Or if it were left out completely, for that matter. Po pretty clearly just needs to remove this thread and then erase all our memories of it, should be fine.

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:01 pm
by ralphmerridew
The general rule is "automate whatever a person in that situation would do without thinking about it much".
For example, if the PC is a newbie driver starting a car, you might consider requiring a good deal of "PUT KEY IN IGNITION. TURN KEY. RELEASE PARKING BRAKE. SHIFT TO REVERSE. PUSH GAS PEDAL. SHIFT TO DRIVE. PUSH GAS PEDAL. ..." If the PC is an experienced driver, anything more than "START CAR. DRIVE TO ..." is excessive.

See "Common Ground" by Stephen Grenade (second section, IIRC) and "Fine Tuned".

Re: Finding a limit to a puzzle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:04 pm
by P/o Prune
ralphmerridew wrote:See "Common Ground" by Stephen Grenade (second section, IIRC) and "Fine Tuned".

You have a link for that? It might be interesting.