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IntFiction's new look

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IntFiction's new look

Postby P/o Prune » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:41 pm

I'm not visiting the website very often so i can't say how long it's been looking the way it does now.

https://intfiction.org/

What do you think about it. Is it an improvement, or what?
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby David Whyld » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:25 pm

A massive unimprovement in my opinion. It looks like some kid's unfinished art project: cheap, tacky and a real eyesore. Discourse is about the worst possible choice for a proper forum as it just screams amateur hour.

I don't know what it is with the rest of the IF community sometimes. First the Quest forum* is sent screaming back to the Stone Age and now Int.fiction. Admittedly I haven't posted there for a while and I only check the forum out infrequently, but I couldn't believe it when I logged on one day and saw what they'd done with it.

* Here it is if you're curious. Just dig the blandness.

http://textadventures.co.uk/forum

Campbell, please don't let the ADRIFT forum go the same way. At least let's have one IF forum on the internet that looks good.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby rotter » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:22 am

Not keen myself, I find it difficult to work out where I am on the thing. Does feel a bit teenagey, particularly with the whole earning badge thing. Does seem a lot quieter than it used to.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby Lumin » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:01 pm

It's the exact same forum software that Choice of Games uses. Just like they brought in the owner of Choice of Games to write their rules for them awhile back (the guy who wrote the hilarious novel length rant about Six Silver Bullets full of assumptions and false information after playing for like five minutes).

Intfiction seems to have some adorable desire to emulate CoG now which is funny when you consider the hate that used to pile on CYOAs. But yes it's a blinding white eyesore, seemingly deliberately confusing to navigate, and at any rate reminding me of CoG in any way is never going to win any points with me. It is not a good company.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby EndMaster » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:01 pm

Basically everything what Lumin said.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby David Whyld » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:19 pm

Lumin wrote:It's the exact same forum software that Choice of Games uses. Just like they brought in the owner of Choice of Games to write their rules for them awhile back (the guy who wrote the hilarious novel length rant about Six Silver Bullets full of assumptions and false information after playing for like five minutes).

Intfiction seems to have some adorable desire to emulate CoG now which is funny when you consider the hate that used to pile on CYOAs. But yes it's a blinding white eyesore, seemingly deliberately confusing to navigate, and at any rate reminding me of CoG in any way is never going to win any points with me. It is not a good company.


That's interesting. Didn't the guy in charge of CoG get made a moderator on Int.fiction a while back? If it's the same guy I'm thinking of, that would certainly explain why Int.fiction's forum looks such a mess these days. Unfortunately, if he's got any say in the matter, there's not much chance of ever getting the old forum back.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby Lumin » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:25 am

No idea who the mods are, normally I check that forum like twice a year around the contest times.

There's two guys in charge of CoG, the one that's into IF is the 'professional' one of the pair, and by that I mean he has just enough business sense not to go frothing and flailing all over the forums, but not enough to not set up an angry petulant manchild as the public face of his company just because they were roommates once.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby David Whyld » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:50 pm

Reading between the lines here, but I'm guessing you're not a fan? :)

I've bought a few games from CoG over the years. Some have been good, some bad, most inbetween. I'm not a fan of their one-size-fits-all approach with the storyline staying largely the same whether you're male / female, black / white, straight / gay, etc or why they feel the need to offer such options. I'm sure we can all use our imagination and play a character who is the complete opposite to our real self without it blowing our fragile minds.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby Lumin » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:40 pm

David Whyld wrote:Reading between the lines here, but I'm guessing you're not a fan? :)


:bravo: LOL, what was your first clue?


But yes, never been a huge fan for all the reasons you mentioned. The ol' copy and paste pronoun swap tends to be used as a replacement for actual branching so you get what are often incredibly linear games with the number of genders and sexualities you can play as listed as the number one feature above plot, setting, interactivity, anything like that... And even aside from that it feels like every single game you pick from Str/Cha/Int in the beginning and then the choice part boils down to always picking the options that match your best skill. As someone who's in love with my own characters I also find it intensely grating on a level that's hard to articulate without just breaking down and screeching REEEEEEEEE when I see the standard thing they do with the designated love interest which is just to make them faceless mannequins with interchangeable parts and sexualities to reflect the whim of the player, instead of being characters in their own right.

Games without those options are sneered at for being 'genderlocked' and shoved into the Hosted Games ghetto. (HG weirdly has still managed to produce some real gems and the best games on the site despite not being offered and editor or an artist or any advertising and being paid in peanuts, simply because they have more freedom to write things that are actually good...)

The culture on the forum can be pretty cringy too even if that's mostly just a few extremely vocal SJWs allowed to dogpile other authors freely. Although that situation's actually improved a bit in that (if they haven't previously angered a mod) an author can now talk about a writing subject most of the time without having to helplessly watch while their thread is derailed with virtue signalling and lectures about transgenderism.

All that said, there have been a few games I really enjoyed like Swamp Castle and Choice of Robots and the Infinity series by Paul Wang, and the platform at least offers SOME option for CYOA authors to get a paycheck even if it just boils down to only seeing like 16% of the profits of all their hard work in the end. But things have happened in the last few months and over on CYS the whole company is now our mortal enemies thanks to some really shady and unprofessional treatment of an author who is just a really cool and likeable person with fans in both communities who in no way deserved all the cr*p they put her through.

Here's the full write up if you enjoy drama:
https://chooseyourstory.com/forums/the-lounge/message/25154

You guys might remember the original Price of Freedom actually, it won the 2014 SpringThing and it with the other CYS entries got everyone arguing about whether games on a website with clicky links even counted as IF. The expanded new version is up and twice the size now, it's some impressively good writing by anyone's standards and the sequels will likely be published free on CYS as well because you know, Jason Hill can choke on a bag of...plover eggs or something idk. :whistle: http://chooseyourstory.com/story/the-price-of-freedom~3a-innocence-lost
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby The0didactus » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:17 am

I don't know anything about these guys...I'm not a fan of the new look, and Miz said some stuff that I find generally grating so I thought I'd weigh in on it.


Lumin wrote:And even aside from that it feels like every single game you pick from Str/Cha/Int in the beginning and then the choice part boils down to always picking the options that match your best skill.


This is a big concern that I have for Skybreak right now, given that the entire challenge mechanic is stat-modified rolls, generally in a triad. I'm trying to offset this in two ways
a) make the rolls so that one is "easy", one is "medium" and one is "hard" so players will be rewarded when staring down an encounter where their skills "match up"...and challenged when they're say, a science genius who has to pick the super hard "solve the problem with science" option.
b) have each result lead to different mechanical outcomes, so players with different builds experience a very different story....this also incentivized people to "take risks" and say, try to slay the monster (str) rather than run away (dex) because one option will lead to a more desirable outcome, even if their skills don't favor that particular roll

But I'm still worried about this so if any of you playtest Skybreak please let me know if it feels like this.

As someone who's in love with my own characters I also find it intensely grating on a level that's hard to articulate without just breaking down and screeching REEEEEEEEE when I see the standard thing they do with the designated love interest which is just to make them faceless mannequins with interchangeable parts and sexualities to reflect the whim of the player, instead of being characters in their own right.

Games without those options are sneered at for being 'genderlocked' and shoved into the Hosted Games ghetto.


This is my A+#1 pet peeve. Every game I've played like this...it really, really shows. I much prefer the reverse option, which you will see employed in "Sunless Sea"...create a whole bunch of really interesting characters, and allow a gender/sexuality agnostic character to romance some, but not all of them. sunless sea is the only game I've really felt allowed me to "play" characters that matched my RL sexual orientation, and it's precisely because they made many of the characters charming and interesting, so they felt like people you'd really 'desire' if you will. I consciously emulated this in 6SB (I dunno if anyone got to the romantic parts of that game) and it will be my model for Skybreak as well.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby EndMaster » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:32 am

If one feels inclined I think you can still dig around through the old threads and find a few protests of when one of the CoG staff came in and started implementing their guidelines to the IF site. Not sure though, I think a lot of it got deleted due to it getting pretty heated.

I do remember someone saying (Don't remember if it was that Peter Pears guy or not) "Why exactly are we letting some other guys dictate how we run our own place again?"

I didn't really keep up on the IF stuff going on, but I thought one of the long time admins there got sort of pushed out along with some of the other old guard.

This is sort of old (Oct 2014) but I think this thread gives sort of a time stamp of when IF got CoGGed completely. Getting new mods, implementing the new guidelines, etc.

https://intfiction.org/t/now-seeking-fo ... ators/7473
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby David Whyld » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:57 am

I think that was Mike Snyder (AKA Sidney Merk), the guy who set up the Int.fiction forum in the first place. It's been a good few years since it happened so I'm kind of hazy on all the details, but from what I remember there was a big argument on the forum between two groups, with one group saying the other should be banned permanently from the forum (the main reason for it being, from what I recall, that they didn't agree with the first group's viewpoint). Mike Snyder disagreed because he didn't think they'd done anything wrong and got flamed for it. In the end, I think he got so fed up with all the pointless bickering and arguing, he just decided to step down as admin and let someone else worry about it.

Which is a really shitty way to treat the guy who not only set up the forum but paid for it out of his own pocket and moderated it for years. Personally I'd have banned the first group for being the trouble-causing assholes they were and the forum would have been a better place for it.

That was when Int.fiction started going sharply downhill. The Codes of Conduct was laughable, the new mods started acting like they had some God-given right to stamp down sharply on any discussion they deemed 'inappropriate' (which could be, quite literally, anything*) and now the forum looks like a real eyesore.

* Seriously. I once got accused by someone of trying to advocate violence against women by saying a game reviewer needed a slap in the face with a wet fish because she was reviewing games after admitting she hadn't actually played them. He didn't get the Monty Python reference and so decided I was some kind of vicious psychopath with a penchant for attacking women with fish. And this is the guy who later became a moderator.
Last edited by David Whyld on Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby Lumin » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:32 am

Ah see now this is the David that I remember. :D

(Seriously you really should join the Discord, you'd be right at home!) And it's even funnier now that the forum saw fit to autocensor censor c r a p.

And yes, I remember the fish slapping incident well. :roll:
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby The0didactus » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:15 pm

David Whyld wrote: He didn't get the Monty Python reference and so decided I was some kind of vicious psychopath with a penchant for attacking women with fish


wait you're not?
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Re: IntFiction's new look

Postby David Whyld » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:15 pm

It depends on what kind of mood I'm in. But who, seriously, hasn't slapped someone around the face with a wet fish? It's practically a pastime in my neck of the woods.
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