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Are We Too Positive?

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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Campbell » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:17 am

But again, I am hoping this is where the new rating system will help. Each member who has had anything rated on the new system now has their average rating, which is basically a reputation score. If your reputation is low, the only way you can improve it is by releasing better quality games, or by removing ones from the list that have been rated low.

Talking of which, how come no-one has rated any of my games? I've got six games up on the adventures list, not one with a rating...
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Campbell » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:24 am

Duncan_B wrote:In this light, is it potentially problematic that the default sorting order is chronological?
I've now changed this so for anyone not logged in the default sort is by rating.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby P/o Prune » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:26 am

KFAdrift wrote:I think there is a difference because, within our small community, each game - whatever the quality - is highly visible because there is little competition. If it is a poor game perhaps we are less judgemental because it is one of ours and all had to begin somewhere. In a larger community there is probably more focus on the better games because there is real competition and players have more choice to ignore what comes out.

This is SO true!

The Adrift community does have the problem of trying to grow writing and playing communities and it is sad when an author writes their first my home adventure and gets torn to shreds never to be seen again. The problem is that trying to be constructive rather then destructive can look like the author is being let off lightly.

Here you are making me climb onto my hobbyhorse agin... (expression directly picked up from my dictionary, so don't blame me :P )
I'll admit that many first timers tend to release their game without having it thoroughly tested, or they have some friend or family member test it (Which, unless you have a pain in the neck brother/sister who really enjoys putting you down, isn't doing much good.)

Let's face it! The Adrift community is not very good at helping beta test games. And unfortunately it's not just the Adrift community. I've had requests posted on the IntFiction and the Game-Testing.org sites, not to mention the times I've asked for testers inside the Adrift community without getting any replies. (I finally got four testers for my IF Comp entry this year, though)

We need to be better helping each other beta test AND write constuctive reviews. Good games comes from tested games!
I'm afarid we have a long and rocky path ahead of us but I'm sure Adrift can come up and match the other platforms.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:30 pm

I don't think we’ll ever get rid of bad games. No matter how hard you try, no matter how much encouragement you give to newcomers, there will always be the occasional one who stumbles across the site, downloads ADRIFT and uploads his first game half an hour later... then explodes when everyone tells him how bad it is. Maybe ADRIFT 5 will help in some degree to prevent that because it’s hard to imagine a newcomer getting to grips with it the same way they did with past versions. Hopefully they'll just get discouraged by the steeper learning curve and wander off to some other system, leaving behind just the ones who are actually prepared to invest the time and effort to learn how to write a decent game.

But I don't think the bad games by newcomers who don't have a clue what they're doing are half as damaging to ADRIFT on the whole as dishonest reviews of bad games from people who should know better. Every system has its clueless wonders who couldn't make a good game if their life depended on it and people just accept that they're here to stay and nothing much can be done about them. But it hurts the community when games that are cleared flawed have such praise heaped upon them. Who, seriously, are we fooling here? If you've played the games in question, you know they're bad and a review telling you otherwise isn't going to change your opinion. If you haven't, and if you're encouraged to play them due to a glowing review which ultimately turns out to be misleading, you're going to be left with the impression that the ADRIFT community are a bunch of people who wouldn't know a good game if they fell over one.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Campbell wrote:But again, I am hoping this is where the new rating system will help. Each member who has had anything rated on the new system now has their average rating, which is basically a reputation score. If your reputation is low, the only way you can improve it is by releasing better quality games, or by removing ones from the list that have been rated low.


I'm not sure a reputation score really counts for a whole lot. After all, Campbell, you currently have no reputation. Does this mean your opinion counts for nothing? ;-)

It’s also not obvious to newcomers just what they have to do to get a better reputation and it’s probably a very easy system to exploit. If I had a bad reputation and wanted a better one, is there anything to stop me simply posting one word reviews of a dozen games on the main site and coming out of it with a glowing 5 out of 5?

What I’d quite like to see is a little more information under each user’s avatar. Instead of just the total of forum posts, why not have a number indicating how many games they've written and reviewed, competitions they've organised, etc. Could there be a handy link from here to the main site where all their games could be downloaded? Maybe an activity monitor – i.e. the more they post, the more they write and review games, the higher the monitor gets? So someone with an activity of 100 would be posting regularly and writing and reviewing games regularly whereas someone with an activity of 0 would be barely on the forum at all? This could also decrease over time to users who haven't been active for some time would lose activity points. Probably way more hassle than it’s worth, but it might be a nice idea to get people to participate.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Campbell » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:31 pm

There's certainly no reason we can't pull more things through from the main site such as number of games etc.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Duncan_B » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:03 pm

The Adrift community is not very good at helping beta test games.

I don't think that's true. You, yourself, had five beta-testers on the last game you released, Finn. I certainly volunteer for beta-testing a lot, even if I never get as much time as I want to actually do it.

I like David's activity monitor idea. More data could be a good thing. It just won't do a lot of good to people outside the community if they're getting their ADRIFT games from off-site (IFDB, for example). Not to be a downer, I do think it's a good idea, but y'know... there's the rub.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:04 pm

Unfortunately, things like IFDB are out of our control so there's not a lot we can do there. But here, we can try and make a difference.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Lumin » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:46 am

I used to be a lot more serious and nitpicky about these things but then at some point I realized games were games. As long as they're enjoyable overall and the author's heart was in the right place (subjective as this may be) I can ignore a lot of flaws. When I play that rare game that gets absolutely everything right (again, subjective) I'm going to gush about it, sure, but that doesn't mean I have to be hypersensitive and raking someone else's work over the coals because of a few flaws or an unclear puzzle or MY MIMESIS: RUINED FOREVER OMG :nerves:. Of course if we're talking about a contest or one of those zero effort written in a half hour things I do tend to be a lot more critical.

also what happened here everything looks different and v5 is free and where am I who are you people what's going on!?? :?
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Duncan_B » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:41 am

Good to see you back here, Lumin.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Lumin » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:57 am

Good to be back!

Don't want to derail, but man, I missed this place. (Has it really been almost a year?) Basically I got a new job that I absolutely love even if it does kick my butt most of the time, my brain is rarely very functional by the time I get home so I pretty much dropped off the face of the internet...started doing some serious work on a CYOA lately though and that got me nostalgic for ADRIFT again.

Glad to see so many familiar faces still hanging around, and it seems that things are generally looking up, what with the new forum and Campbell seeming a lot more involved. And of course v5 being free is awesome--Campbell, I know how much work you've put into it so I respect the heck out of you for doing that, and hope it attracts lots and lots of new people and donations going forward.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Campbell » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:18 am

Lumin wrote:I know how much work you've put into it so I respect the heck out of you for doing that, and hope it attracts lots and lots of new people and donations going forward.
Thanks! :)
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby MikeDesert » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:46 pm

I think most people are too critical when it comes to complaining about S**t they get for free anyway. As far as rating a game though, I don't really care about grammatical and spelling errors so long as they're not distracting. I just want to have fun playing the game. I've played some highly regarded non-Adrift games that bored me after 20 minutes. In general though, I'd be harder on all this IF S**t if people were actually charging for it. How entitled do you gotta be to be bitching about someone's free game?
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:36 pm

So we should sing the praises of something that's bad just because it's free?
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby MikeDesert » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:20 pm

nope. I do like constructive bad reviews like one that I got. I'm now fixing the stuff in my game to make it better and more importantly more fun. On the other hand I read some reviews and it seems like some people get off on ripping on people's games. Give it one star or whatever but taking 20 minutes out of your day to fillet someone's free game is pretty silly.
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