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Are We Too Positive?

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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Duncan_B » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:41 pm

Give it one star or whatever but taking 20 minutes out of your day to fillet someone's free game is pretty silly.

It would seem silly if it were just us playing, but as a matter of fact, it is not. I strongly believe in constructive deconstruction. If I read through a game that I think is bad, I have to be able to explain what made it bad so that other people in the community (including potential players and the author) will know what led me to that conclusion. Same if I play something I think is good. True, there is a difference between simply attacking an IF and writing a detailed review of its contents. The former is to be avoided, but we quite need the latter.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:29 pm

MikeDesert wrote:nope. I do like constructive bad reviews like one that I got. I'm now fixing the stuff in my game to make it better and more importantly more fun. On the other hand I read some reviews and it seems like some people get off on ripping on people's games. Give it one star or whatever but taking 20 minutes out of your day to fillet someone's free game is pretty silly.


That's not really what you said before, though, is it? Before you said

MikeDesert wrote:I think most people are too critical when it comes to complaining about S**t they get for free anyway.


and

MikeDesert wrote:How entitled do you gotta be to be bitching about someone's free game?


whereas now you're saying you appreciate constructive bad reviews.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass whether something is free or paid for. If it's bad, it's bad full stop. I'm no more interested in playing a bad game that's free than I am in one I paid for, and I'd hate it if people started thinking "oh, it's free so it doesn't matter if it's any good". It matters a lot to anyone wanting to play it.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby MikeDesert » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:15 pm

Like when people complain to me that on my blog I rip an album at 192 instead of 224 or something. Screw you, you're getting it for free, asshole!

But I never said I didn't believe in "fair" reviews, nor did I say you should praise cr*p. There's a difference in an honest review and "bitching about someone's free game". And yes, if I paid $14 for a shitty game, I would be more likely to tear it apart than if it was given away for free by a fan/hobbyist. It might not be any better of a game, but I would be more constructive. There are a lot of good constructive reviews. I was talking about the whiny ones. And there are lots of those too.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Lumin » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:49 am

If you make something publicly available on the internet, be it a game you made or a picture of your newborn baby, people can and are going to have things to say about it and some of those things are going to be overly critical or just plain mean-spirited. Deal with it.

Personally, if someone's going to give something I wrote one star I'd be much more okay with it if they 'took 20 minutes out of their day' and wrote a 1000 word essay detailing why they hated everything rather than just leaving me guessing or wondering if I'd been the victim of some random troll. I actually love the way so many IF players approach every game, no matter how small, as a serious effort by the author that deserves equally serious thought and criticism. Who do I have to kill for a CYOA or static fiction community that approaches work with that kind of respect? (I basically quit writing regular stories because I just got so disgusted with slaving over a word processor for weeks and pouring my heart only to get a chorus of 'that was p good 5 stars!' from people I'm not even sure bothered to read it...)

Of course, the way you criticize something can make a big difference. I always try to find at least one good thing to bring up even if I found a mile-long list of problems, and I don't ever want to come off as insulting, because like I said before, games are games. If something is so bad I'm getting mad at the author for writing it I should be equally mad at myself for playing.

Also the tone of my reviews tend to be pretty lenient I think because if the writing is engaging at all I can still enjoy it to some degree even if I'm fully aware the game is terrible and/or unplayable on every other level. I'm just weird like that I guess. (It's the 'so lazy they couldn't even be bothered to proof read the first paragraph' situations that really get under my skin...)
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby P/o Prune » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:27 pm

The Adrift community is not very good at helping beta test games.
I don't think that's true. You, yourself, had five beta-testers on the last game you released, Finn. I certainly volunteer for beta-testing a lot, even if I never get as much time as I want to actually do it.


True Duncan. But it took forever and a day to summon up those 5 testers. 4 writeups at the gameterster.org, and quite a few calls here and on the other IF forums.
I think it took me over a month to get the testers. Not that expect people to stampeed to test my games, but over a month is quite a long time.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Considering the small size of the community, 5 testers is pretty good going though. That's probably 1/4 of the active forum members.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Duncan_B » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:46 pm

David Whyld wrote:Considering the small size of the community, 5 testers is pretty good going though. That's probably 1/4 of the active forum members.
Quoted for truth.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Lumin » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:50 am

Duncan_B wrote:
David Whyld wrote:Considering the small size of the community, 5 testers is pretty good going though. That's probably 1/4 of the active forum members.
Quoted for truth.


Hah, good point. Get any more than that and there won't be anyone left to actually play when it's finished.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby ralphmerridew » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:44 am

I remember how people made that sort of joke about GWK's game Avalon, and compared it to a parade in a small town. (Only a few people show up to watch, because everyone else is in it.)
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby P/o Prune » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:27 pm

David Whyld wrote:Considering the small size of the community, 5 testers is pretty good going though. That's probably 1/4 of the active forum members.


True, if it hadn't been for the fact that only 1 or 2 of the testers was actually from the forum.
This is why I claimed that we're not nearly good enough helping each other testing games. Yes, I realize the "danger" of having inside drifters testing Adrift games, but still.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby MikeDesert » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:48 pm

I'd never played Escape From Camelot.

"Look group member"

"Which Group member. group member or group member?"

hahahaha! Awesome.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby rotter » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:51 pm

MikeDesert wrote:I'd never played Escape From Camelot.

"Look group member"

"Which Group member. group member or group member?"

hahahaha! Awesome.


Actually I like your review better than mine. Brief and to the point! rofl
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Gio » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:30 am

David Whyld wrote:A recent thread on the IF Fiction forum raised what I thought was an interesting point: that the ADRIFT community as a whole generally sings the praises of new ADRIFT games while quietly overlooking any flaws in them.


Mr. Whyld, when has anyone *ever* (successfully) accused *you* of being too positive? If such has been going on, then perhaps the world truly has turned under me.
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby David Whyld » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:58 am

I should certainly hope not. Negative is my middle name. (I have strange parents.)
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Re: Are We Too Positive?

Postby Gio » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:02 am

David Whyld wrote:I should certainly hope not. Negative is my middle name. (I have strange parents.)


*laughs* That's what I thought. =)
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