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Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

A forum where new and old games can be reviewed - an alternative to the reviews on the Adventures page of the main ADRIFT site. Also the place to ask for any assistance if you are stuck playing a particular game.

Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:56 am

Birth Of The Phoenix, created in 1981 by Phoenix Software. This game can be downloaded off the main adventures listing page.

This is a beginner's adventure and NOT for advanced or intermediate adventurers. Also remember that this game is 30 YEARS OLD.

If you require the map or the walkthrough, please feel free to PM me OR post below and I will upload it to this post.

This game has been THOROUGHLY TESTED by a friend of mine. If you find ANY ERRORS please PM me right away.

Most importantly, enjoy the game.

billy7720

PS: If this game was updated to today's standards, I'm sure it would pretty much look like this. :)
I do NOT have the manual and if anyone out there has it, please PM me so I can have it for the players out there. Thanks!
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DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:01 am

My friend found a small "bug" in the handling of the rubies. This has been fixed. My apologies folks. It WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

Thank you for your understanding. Version 2 (fixed) has been uploaded.
DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby Campbell » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:47 pm

Why have you removed "x" as a shortcut for examine? It's a bit uncomfortable for me to type "look book", or have to type out "examine book" in full rather than just "x book".

Also, your implementation of "dig" is a little odd. A better way is to create a general dig task (as you have done), then create specific tasks to override it. It looks like you are trying to allow "dig <object>", in which case create a general task "dig {with/using} %object%", then you can add restrictions that the Referenced object must be held or not. It's a lot easier than adding loads of restrictions for each individual object.

Also, rather than create general tasks such as "[look/l/examine] <object>", create a specific task for the Examine Objects task, then you can select the object from the list. This is much better as it means you can later change the general task to add more ways to say the task, and also it allows all ways of saying the object name. For example, if I type "examine the potion" your task won't trigger. Creating a specific task solves this.

See the Specific Tasks section of the Wiki for more details. The example at the end of that page should also prove helpful.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby Campbell » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:03 pm

For very similar reasons to the above, I got stuck right at the start. I tried:
> get book
> open it
Because I typed "it", this sent the command "open the book". Your task is set up to only match "open book" and so failed to run. Because this didn't run, "read book" then fails to match because of a restriction that your "open book" task has run.

If you change your "open book" task to be a specific task of the "Open Objects" task, you eradicate this problem.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:09 pm

Campbell wrote:Why have you removed "x" as a shortcut for examine? It's a bit uncomfortable for me to type "look book", or have to type out "examine book" in full rather than just "x book".

Also, your implementation of "dig" is a little odd. A better way is to create a general dig task (as you have done), then create specific tasks to override it. It looks like you are trying to allow "dig <object>", in which case create a general task "dig {with/using} %object%", then you can add restrictions that the Referenced object must be held or not. It's a lot easier than adding loads of restrictions for each individual object.

Also, rather than create general tasks such as "[look/l/examine] <object>", create a specific task for the Examine Objects task, then you can select the object from the list. This is much better as it means you can later change the general task to add more ways to say the task, and also it allows all ways of saying the object name. For example, if I type "examine the potion" your task won't trigger. Creating a specific task solves this.

See the Specific Tasks section of the Wiki for more details. The example at the end of that page should also prove helpful.


The game was made to be specifically as close to the original as possible. "Dig" was made this way in the game. As for general tasks, I'm learning this as I go.

I won't release an original game unless it's near or exactly as close as I can get it to the original. Sorry, I think if it "isn't broke" don't fix it. I realize ADRIFT was made to "better" games but for original commercial games, I cannot and WILL NOT change what the original game was. Sorry.

This game was made to use TWO WORD commands. Nothing more. It's what I did.

Sorry if I have disappointed you. It was not my intention.

Palace In Thunderland is almost done, but I doubt I will release it publicly because it's almost as close to the original as I can make it. Sorry, I won't improve on these games. I want them to play EXACTLY as they did in the past for the simple fact; these games were NOT made available to the IBM PC. I'm literally playing and writing down what each and every location shows, says and changes. Same goes for instances and objects. I am writing EVERYTHING to paper and THEN inputting the info to ADRIFT. This is a LONG process.

Anyway once again, I am sorry to disappoint. I'll sit on the "back burner" for awhile.

Thanks.
DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby Campbell » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:13 pm

billy7720 wrote:Sorry if I have disappointed you. It was not my intention.
Not at all, please don't take it the wrong way. I am merely trying to help so you can get the most out of the product in case there was anything you didn't understand. :)
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby David Whyld » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:19 pm

If you're unwilling to improve on an old game and want to make it as close to the original as possible, then I have to ask: what's the point of remaking it? I could just grab an emulator and play the original right now.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby Po. Prune » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:27 pm

Yes, Billy. David has a point there.
It's ok to remake an old game, but a lot of the old games from the 80's had a parser that was next to no good. If you didn't hit the correct word spot on you'd get either "I can't do that" or "I don't understand" reply.
If you're remaking an old game, keep it as close as possible to the original story line, but improve it command wise. This way people will have a brand new experience when playing it.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby rotter » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:27 pm

I'm all for porting the classics or even lesser classics to give them a wider/new audience. But I have admit I can't see the point of porting them to a new language and then not making use of the modern parser. Interactive Fiction is about the story, plot and the puzzles. As long as they are not compromised the game should take into account both modern taste and the modern practices. I ported an old game called Escape To Freedom by Mario Moeller I had played years ago but was not very well known. I tried to do just that, so for example all the sudden death and sparse locations are still in it. But I tried to smooth out all the GTV and tried to make sure all things mentioned in the text could be examined. They are not a vital part of the original game. They would have been present due to things like limitations of the original language used, computer designed on or programming ability.

I played Adventure games from the so called golden age. I still play IF games, so I'm the type of audience you are probably aiming at with rewrites like this. Even if I had played and loved the original I would still expect "x" to be a shortcut for examine in a rewrite, even if it was not in the original. Even with older games my expectations have moved on.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:07 pm

Campbell,

I've sent you an email. Thanks. Hope to hear from you.
DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:43 pm

V3 up.
DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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Posts: 102
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby Lumin » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:57 am

billy7720 wrote:Sorry if I have disappointed you. It was not my intention.

Palace In Thunderland is almost done, but I doubt I will release it publicly because it's almost as close to the original as I can make it. Sorry, I won't improve on these games. I want them to play EXACTLY as they did in the past for the simple fact; these games were NOT made available to the IBM PC. I'm literally playing and writing down what each and every location shows, says and changes. Same goes for instances and objects. I am writing EVERYTHING to paper and THEN inputting the info to ADRIFT. This is a LONG process.

Anyway once again, I am sorry to disappoint. I'll sit on the "back burner" for awhile.

Thanks.



Billy, no offense but it seems like you're taking Campbell's feedback a little personally. I can see where everybody is coming from, (speaking for myself I'd probably be more likely to actually finish an older game if it were made a little more intuitive, GTV is always a big hangup to any puzzle and not something I exactly see as a positive or necessary part of the classic 'experience') but of course we appreciate the work you put into porting the games and it's not like anyone's making a huge deal about it or being insulting, so saying you're not going to release a game (why port it at all in that case?) or that you're not going to get involved in discussions for awhile because someone was frustrated by the parser seems a little extreme.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:10 pm

Lumin wrote:
billy7720 wrote:Sorry if I have disappointed you. It was not my intention.

Palace In Thunderland is almost done, but I doubt I will release it publicly because it's almost as close to the original as I can make it. Sorry, I won't improve on these games. I want them to play EXACTLY as they did in the past for the simple fact; these games were NOT made available to the IBM PC. I'm literally playing and writing down what each and every location shows, says and changes. Same goes for instances and objects. I am writing EVERYTHING to paper and THEN inputting the info to ADRIFT. This is a LONG process.

Anyway once again, I am sorry to disappoint. I'll sit on the "back burner" for awhile.

Thanks.



Billy, no offense but it seems like you're taking Campbell's feedback a little personally. I can see where everybody is coming from, (speaking for myself I'd probably be more likely to actually finish an older game if it were made a little more intuitive, GTV is always a big hangup to any puzzle and not something I exactly see as a positive or necessary part of the classic 'experience') but of course we appreciate the work you put into porting the games and it's not like anyone's making a huge deal about it or being insulting, so saying you're not going to release a game (why port it at all in that case?) or that you're not going to get involved in discussions for awhile because someone was frustrated by the parser seems a little extreme.


What Campbell has posted has been fixed. Version 3 has been uploaded for a few days now. I don't upload the games for others - I do it for me. I like to share whatever I make and I make these games mostly just for me. It was the same way when I was making pinball tables with Visual Pinball. I made the games for me, but shared them anyway.

Anyway, like I said, I don't make these games for others, I just like to share. It's the "right" thing to do even though I make the games for me. I LOVE to type and "program" using other programs. It's my thing.

I know Campbell meant well; he and I are talking via PM's. The next game on my list is fully updated with totally new commands and goodies. I will be up soon (by Christmas I hope).

As for Jabberwocky: The Untold Story, well, this was a "last minute" idea that was in my head. It was not intended to even see the light of day or even be uploaded. To be honest, I've NEVER had an idea like that pop into my head but it happened. I just thought folks would get a kick out of how I look at "humor". So, I shared it. On top of the game being very short, it's not a great game but at least I do get laughs from it and that's all that matters. I don't care what others think of it. It was fun to make.

One thing I have learned though; I WILL NEVER tell someone to change this, do that, use this, tell them "this is much easier to use" and so on. it's not my job. Constructive criticism is a good thing but if the "way" is there, this should be noted somewhere for others to know it is there. A search for a "needle in the haystack" is not helpful. Again, nothing against Campbell or anyone else.

I love the old saying "if it's not broke, why fix it?"

As for making a game better, great! Good idea. Updated commands make an old game much better for certain. This i can understand.

On my own, I found many commands using the [ ], { }, and % % items. One that shocked me was having the player use: say %text% which in turn allows a player to say what is typed from the command cursor. Of course you have to watch for other commands that may use the same command as "say" but this works. Very interesting indeed. It's too bad there isn't a listing for all the commands using the brackets and the percentage signs. This would save MILLIONS of headaches I'm sure. Who knows what else is in the ADRIFT program with the usage of these items?

Later;
billy7720
:yeah:
DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby David Whyld » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:57 pm

Isn't there a list in the old ADRIFT manual? It's for V4 but most of the commands should still be valid for V5.
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Re: Birth Of The Phoenix, 2011

Postby billy7720 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:50 pm

David Whyld wrote:Isn't there a list in the old ADRIFT manual? It's for V4 but most of the commands should still be valid for V5.


I have this. Seems it doesn't exist on the downloads area.
DONE (for ADRIFT 5.0.21)
- Jabberwocky: The Untold Story!
- Birth Of The Phoenix, 1981 by Phoenix. Ver3.
- Palace In Thunderland, 1981 by Micro Lab
- Fraktured Faebles, 1985 by American Eagle (graphic IF)
COMING:
- Pillage Village, 1984
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