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Saabie's runner

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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby ElliotM » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:33 pm

This is an exciting development. I agree with what has been said already. Keep macros and transcripts while reintroducing multiple commands and selectable text. I may have some thoughts on the map but I'll have to take some time to articulate what I liked and didn't like about it.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby saabie » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:52 am

David Whyld wrote:> A full screen option so I don't need to see toolbars, title bars, etc around the edge of the screen. The v5 Runner has a full screen option but all it does is hide the toolbar while leaving everything else visible. Old school text adventures in the 80's used full screen and it was a lot more immersive
That should be reasonably simple, I've added it to the list.

> Bring back the v4 shortcuts: INC FONT for increasing the font size, DEC FONT for decreasing it, etc.
Easy

> Put the text entry box inline with the game text instead of stuck in its own little panel at the bottom.
I already have that working, but there is a problem with the scroll bars flickering every time you press a key that is proving difficult.

> Bring back v4's edit mode so you can easily select text off the screen without needing to start a transcript like you do in v5.
I just tried it and it worked. I didn't even have to do anything :)

> Multiple commands on the same line is a must.
A consistent separator like "n. eat grue. open box" would be easy, but then you wouldn't be able to use a full stop or a decimal point in the command.
Something like "get the apple from the table and eat it" would be quite complex to parse but I'll see what I can come up with.

> Graphics inline with the text not floating off in their own little window.
I have just added inline pictures this morning.
But isn't the ADRIFT runner supposed to do that if you close the graphics window?

> The v4 map as opposed to the v5 one. Up and down exits clearly labelled. The v5 map is pretty useless as it lists southwest and down as the same direction and often displays locations beneath each other so you can't even see they're there.
I don't have a library for 3-D drawing so it will have to be a 2-D map with buttons to select each level. I will look at v4's map to see how it works.

> A feedback form build directly into the Runner. When the player finishes the game, or dies, they're given the option of sending feedback directly to the author via email
No idea how hard this would be, I will put it on the list of things to look at one day.
Po. Prune wrote:One thing I'd like to know is how the runner is going to handle graphics and sounds
The graphics are working (both inline and in a window) but I haven't done anything with the sound yet. I still need to do window layouts as well.
rotter wrote:personally I'm hoping for a proper web runner. Also proper multi-platform to push out the playability.
It will be some time before I get to these, but it is on my to-do list.
Lazzah wrote:please do not leave out the transcript option. This is a valuable tool for playtesting and you should also keep the ability to insert comments in the transcript by pressing the # key. Also keep the macro option.
These will all be easy to add.
Lumin wrote:inline graphics by the way should be the default
Your wish is my command. I can put a tick box on the options page for anyone that wants the separate window.
Kennedy wrote:Will the runner also support version 4 ADRIFT files?
Eventually. This is quite a lot of work as it uses a completely different file format and the parser itself needs to work differently.
Last edited by saabie on Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby Lumin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:20 am

David Whyld wrote:Another addition, though I don't know how easy this would be:

> A feedback form build directly into the Runner. When the player finishes the game, or dies, they're given the option of sending feedback directly to the author via email. Did they like the game? Do they think it could be improved and if so how? How would they rate the game on a scale of 1 out of 10? All the author would need to do would be to fill in a little "author information" tab in the Generator and, hey presto, an easy way of providing feedback pops up in the Runner.


This just came up in the Why do you Write IF thread, and the alternate option Saabie mentioned of having it be a link having it take you to somewhere you can leave a review would normally be fine, except...whether it goes to the review section of the forum or the download page, an account is required, which is really going to cut down on the chances of reviews from people who aren't already involved with the community.

Although I suppose we might equally argue that it may encourage someone new to make an account or that...well, tbf I guess a complete newbie isn't likely to just stumble across the site and download a game and successfully play it anyhow.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby saabie » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:22 am

There are a few problems with sending an email as well.
- Antivirus programs are likely to object to programs that generate emails.
- A lot of people don't have an email client on their computers, they access their email using a web page that their ISP provides.

The most reliable option would be to set up a special internet server to receive and pass-on the messages (The same server could also do automatic upgrades to the software or host a game catalog)
- This of course needs someone to provide a site to host it on.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby David Whyld » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:49 am

saabie wrote:> Multiple commands on the same line is a must.
A consistent separator like "n. eat grue. open box" would be easy, but then you wouldn't be able to use a full stop or a decimal point in the command.


Do people ever use full stops or decimal points in command? v4 had multiple commands separated by commas and I've never understood why v5 didn't do the same.

saabie wrote:> The v4 map as opposed to the v5 one. Up and down exits clearly labelled. The v5 map is pretty useless as it lists southwest and down as the same direction and often displays locations beneath each other so you can't even see they're there.
I don't have a library for 3-D drawing so it will have to be a 2-D map with buttons to select each level. I will look at v4's map to see how it works.


Sounds fine to me. The 3D map in v5 was an annoying gimmick anyway. I always preferred the one in v4 because it showed you what you needed to do without needing to be flipped over or dragged around the screen.

saabie wrote:There are a few problems with sending an email as well.
- Antivirus programs are likely to object to programs that generate emails.
- A lot of people don't have an email client on their computers, they access their email using a web page that their ISP provides.

The most reliable option would be to set up a special internet server to receive and pass-on the messages (The same server could also do automatic upgrades to the software or host a game catalog)
- This of course needs someone to provide a site to host it on.


I realised after I typed that that it was probably a lot harder and much much work than it first appeared. Ah well, it was just an idea.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby Denk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:23 am

David Whyld wrote:
saabie wrote:> Multiple commands on the same line is a must.
A consistent separator like "n. eat grue. open box" would be easy, but then you wouldn't be able to use a full stop or a decimal point in the command.
Do people ever use full stops or decimal points in command? v4 had multiple commands separated by commas and I've never understood why v5 didn't do the same.

If the choice of separator stands between "." and "," I would prefer "." since I use "," in my games, e.g. "woman, hello". However, I think it is a shame to remove the option of full stop in commands in case somebody implements a money system etc. A solution could be to have "." as the default separator, which could then be set to "," or "none" if preferred by the user.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby David Whyld » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:28 am

I've never known people using "woman, hello" to speak to people. Wouldn't "talk to woman" or "say to woman" work better?
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby Denk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:36 am

I allow for both formats. The format "woman, give me hammer" is standard in Infocom adventures and is the default format for communication in Inform.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby Lumin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:04 pm

I've seen commas used for giving commands to NPCs that are supposed to help you solve puzzles. >Bob, stand on pressure plate. Or so on. Not sure how widespread it actually is though.

How about a semi-colon?
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby catman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:57 pm

In TAB I made it like this...

To command characters use formats:

>say to <character>, <command>
>say <character>, <command>
><character>, <command>

For example:
>say to farmer, get knife
[works with full stop also]

The default entries allow gameplayers to command all characters to get,drop,wear,and remove items, follow you, stop following, go in a direction, get objects out of containers, put objects into containers, get all, drop all, wear all, remove all, get all out of a container, drop all into a container, talk to another character. Also you can:

>say to <character>, hello
>say to <character>, inventory (or 'i'),
>say to <character>, wait

The adventure player can now give objects to characters and also ask them to give you objects. You can even command them to give an object to another character!

EXAMPLES:

>say to farmer, hello
>say farmer, get the knife
>say jim, go north
>bill, put the knife into the box
>farmer, inventory
>say to farmer, get all
>say farmer, drop the lamp
>say to farmer, talk to <character>
>robot, follow (or; follow me)
>say robot, stop following (or; stop following me)
>jim, give knife to bill
>say to bill the policeman, give everything to me
>say joseph, se
>say to robot, take everything out of the box
>joseph the farmer, take everything except the knife out of the box
>say to jim, drop all but the lamp
>farmer, give the lamp to me

If the character is not in your location/room then of course you will be told so; likewise you will be informed if the character is unable to carry out your command.

You can even tell a character to perform multiple commands eg:

>say to <character>, go north and get the box then south and give the box to me

>say <character>, get all but the knife then go north and give everything to jim then go south and follow me

The characters understand it/them/him/her so you can type:

>smith, get lamp and give it to jones

The characters may understand the 'again' or 'g' command:

>say to giant, pull lever,g,g

Finally the player can give items to characters:

>give rope to smith

>give all to randles then say to smith, give all to randles

Each command carried out by a character will cost 1 turn of the game. If for any reason the character does not understand a command or cannot execute a command, you will be informed so and the character will cease to act on any possible further command instructions given in that input.

Have fun!


Example demo clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoFmT5cYVI

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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby David Whyld » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:47 pm

A few more ideas:

> Customisable shortcuts: in v4, F2 brings up the map but in v5 it's changed to CTRL + M. Being able to change this back, and customise other shortcuts, would be great.

> Could extra information be added to the Runner to make people aware of the ADRIFT world? At the moment, it doesn't have links to the ADRIFT main site or forum. (Granted, most people will likely have downloaded the Runner from the main site anyway, but it doesn't hurt to provide handy links in the Runner.) Could there be some kind of activity feed, perhaps listing latest releases? A link to the game's page on the main site so people can leave feedback?
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby saabie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:50 am

Lumin wrote:I've seen commas used for giving commands to NPCs that are supposed to help you solve puzzles. >Bob, stand on pressure plate. Or so on. Not sure how widespread it actually is though.
How about a semi-colon?
I use commands like "sandy, hold the photo in front of the camera" or "bruce, throw me the rope" myself.
The semi-colon would work, but it would be better to use the same standards as used in other IF systems.

I have seen all of the following in walkthroughs and examples:
TAKE BOX. OPEN IT (periods)
TAKE THE DISK AND PUT IT IN THE BOX (and)
UNLOCK THE DOOR WITH THE KEY, OPEN IT THEN GO NORTH (comma/then)

The ADRIFT parser already recognises the comma and the word "AND" as separators for multiple objects in one command:
GET THE SWORD, AN ORANGE AND THE POTATO PEELER
So you could end up with something like this:
GET THE SWORD, BEAT THE APPLE, ORANGE AND PEA AND COOK THE PIE AND THE PASTIE
If I can distinguish between item names and task commands then I can probably figure this out, but if there is an item named "COOK" or an apple whose name is "BEAT" then the above line can have several different meanings.

I will probably match the input against the task commands first and then if there is leftover words at the end starting with [./,/and/then] then I will assume that it is a separate command and try to parse it.

@David Whyld
Customising shortcuts, web links etc. should be fairly straightforward.
An activity feed would be a lot more work, much easier to just link to http://www.adrift.co/games
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby David Whyld » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:18 am

I've always used commas as a separator between commands, but I'm fine with using full stops. It seems to be more common in the rest of the IF world than commas anyway.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby ralphmerridew » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:12 pm

A player might want to use periods when typing an abbreviation, ( ASK MR. WHYLD ABOUT MR. WILD ) but in practice few will complain if the game requires the player to omit those periods.
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Re: Saabie's runner

Postby Lumin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:39 pm

Gotta say I'm looking forward to the return of v4's 'copy text from screen' feature more than ever now that I've started playing Tingalan and been having to take notes manually as I play.
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