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Dream Games: Part 2

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Dream Games: Part 2

Postby RenatoDias » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:56 pm

Hey, everyone. Continuing the thread http://forum.adrift.co/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12077(Dream Games), assuming you had time to write, what would be your dream game? Apart from time, what is your obstacle to doing it?

Mine would be a open world with thousands of locations, characters to talk, time system, money system, missions/quests and more systems.
Apart from time, my obstacle would be location description.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby David Whyld » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:49 am

For years, I've also had plans to write an epic RPG game. You know the kind of thing: thousands of locations, hundreds of NPCs, a multitude of quests, seriously cool combat system, etc. The kind of game people new to the IF scene talk about all the time and never get anywhere with, though it’s often quite amusing watching them getting more and more insistent that they'll totally 100% definitely finish it, right before they disappear from the scene or suffer that old bugbear: the hard drive crash which conveniently wipes away all their progress.

Yeah, we've all probably got a game like this in us somewhere. The kind of game we’d like to write but know that we never will because it’s such an epic thing it’d take years to finish. Literally years. Testing it and fixing bugs would take another year. On top of all that, I've no idea whether ADRIFT could handle a game as big as the one I envision – we’re talking 4-5 mb of pure text as a bare minimum, probably closer to 10 mb by the time I finish adding 101 different things that aren't really necessary but which seem like a good idea at the time.

So in an ideal world, if I had limitless time and no other things to worry about, that's the kind of game I’d write.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby The0didactus » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:08 pm

ADRIFT can handle games of up to 2MB of pure text with minimal problems. I do notice some slight performance slowdowns using the developer, but this could be rectified by making a bunch of <1MB modules and adding them together.

I initially got into ADRIFT in 2001, when I set out to make Six Silver Bullets...I finished that game in 2018.
I started work on Skybreak in 2014...I finished in 2019. The last year of work I spend perhaps 1-2 hours per day, each day.
My current WIP, Lost Coastlines, began as an idea in roughly 2016...given the rate of progress on it it's generously something I'll complete in like 2024.


I guess what I'm saying is that you *CAN* make these big games...but they take a while.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby David Whyld » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:17 pm

I've written some big games in the past, though nothing in the same league as my dream game mentioned above (the biggest would be about 750 kb if converted to ADRIFT 5). Then again, I'm not too concerned about hitting ADRIFT's upper limit. That epic RPG is one I've been thinking about writing for the last two decades and I still haven't made any real headway with it. I know it's the kind of game I'm never actually going to write, and even if I did start it I'd stick with it for long, but it's fun to speculate on what it might be like.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby Lumin » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:51 pm

It seems like everybody comes to ADRIFT looking to make giant RPGs. That was my very first interest in the program well before I even joined the forum, I was coming from playing MUDs and wanted to make a single player one.

Big worlds full of NPCs are easy to make, it's just the minutia of turning it all into an actual playable game that always kill my efforts in their infancy.


The fact is, IF games are just difficult to make and require a lot of dedication. There's no shortcut there.

Like, I know we occasionally get mad enough about nouns that we swear we're going to throw them all out, but the fact is if I'm playing and I encounter something interesting I want to and expect to be able to interact with it. Unless the author has communicated through the game very well that the gameplay focus is elsewhere, interacting with the environment is how you find out just what is important and what you're supposed to be doing there.

I think especially if they don't come from a background of actually playing the games, I think a lot of newbies are not prepared for the amount of work that would go into making a simple item hunt over like ten rooms, let alone a massive RPG with infinite things to do.

Breadth is easy, what I'm working on now is a small game with a lot of depth, and just getting one thing to work the way I want it to feels like it can take hours sometimes.

Btw, shouldn't this be in General?
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby DazaKiwi » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:03 am

Most dream games are unfinished over ambitious projects. Its better to have a dream of finishing a game and to do that, is be less ambitious, think smaller and give yourself a target you can met. Of course that is easier said than done. But some of my projects in development now are scaling back in scope. If a game is well designed, fun and only lasts 30mins to an hour it will be more memorable and likely the player will finish it than a huge game that you never go back to. One good example is an indie team who make small complete games they are called Sokpop, they make a new game every 2 weeks and some of them are good, short, you can find their games on Steam or itch https://sokpop.itch.io/ My fav at the moment is Desert Hunter 2.
Note these are not text adventure games, but just case in point about small scope games can be fun to make and play and more likely the project to be finished.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby David Whyld » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:48 am

Lumin wrote:I think especially if they don't come from a background of actually playing the games, I think a lot of newbies are not prepared for the amount of work that would go into making a simple item hunt over like ten rooms, let alone a massive RPG with infinite things to do.


That's a lot of the problem with newcomers and their “30,000 room epic game” ideas. As a player, it probably looks very easy to write a game on that scale, but when you're actually doing it yourself it’s anything but easy. The same way anyone can read a novel, think “hey, I could write a better book than this no problem!” and then immediately set off to write it, only to come a cropper when they realise that to be able to write a great novel, you actually have to be able to write.

The problem when you're a newcomer, though, is that it’s very hard to be dissuaded from your ideas. I've seen so many newbies come onto this forum with their epic game ideas that are never going to work, but the more you try to tell them to aim for something a little more achievable, the more they seem determined to see it through to the bitter end. Before you know it, they're outlining plans for a game which would take a dedicated team of programmers working around the clock years to write, and they plan to have it done and fully tested by a week on Tuesday.

DazaKiwi wrote:Most dream games are unfinished over ambitious projects. Its better to have a dream of finishing a game and to do that, is be less ambitious, think smaller and give yourself a target you can met.


Yeah, but that's the whole point of dream games: they're the kind of games which we know we’ll never be able to write but can dream about doing one day. What's the point of dreaming about a game we know we can write? :peep:
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby RenatoDias » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:04 pm

David Whyld wrote:That's a lot of the problem with newcomers and their “30,000 room epic game” ideas. As a player, it probably looks very easy to write a game on that scale, but when you're actually doing it yourself it’s anything but easy. The same way anyone can read a novel, think “hey, I could write a better book than this no problem!” and then immediately set off to write it, only to come a cropper when they realise that to be able to write a great novel, you actually have to be able to write.

People think it's easy writing a game. I knew it wasn't so easy to do it. I'm trying my best on my small world game using the systems I want and made myself, like bomb defusal and time. I dreamed it bigger, but had to scale it down a bit.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby rovarsson » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:45 am

Newbie-writer POV: I didn't set out to make a "30,000 room epic game", but I did set out to write the kind of game I like:

-A long ("Worlds Apart"-long; days-or-weeks-to-finish-long), interesting storyline.
-NPCs that are not cut out of cardboard.
-Few but big and well-incorporated puzzles.
-Deep implementation of objects, even unimportant ones, while still nudging the player toward the important objects and actions.
-No disambiguation problems whatsoever. (I've already lost some teeth while chewing on this).
-And in the natural writing process, I've decided I have to have a branching middle-game.

When I started writing in ADRIFT, I quickly realised how much work this was actually going to be. Instead of trimming down my goals, I extended my expected time. I now do not expect to finish The Tree (again: working title) until 2022. I'd really like to enter Spring Thing 2021, but if the game's not up to my standards, I'll pass.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby Lumin » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:06 am

That's very admirable and cool, but let's not pretend that something like, "I think I'd like to try making a sprawling RPG!" leads to *works steadily at it for two years* in even 1 out of a 100 cases. The game dev scene would be very different if there was that amount of follow through when people set out to do something substantial with a program or language they aren't familiar with.
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Re: Dream Games: Part 2

Postby rovarsson » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:30 am

-Month 5: I won't even bother with the date. Lost count weeks ago. The sand still stretches in all directions. The poles must be affected by the drifting moon. I tried to chew some moisture out of my boot leather today. If I don't find the Inspirality Source soon, all will be for naught.
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