ADRIFT World - Injecting life into the scene

This forum is the place to discuss the older ADRIFT versions 3.9 and 4.0.

Please refer to the ADRIFT 4 Manual for more information.
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Dan Blazquez
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Post by Dan Blazquez »

Although I have few posts, I've been a lurker on the forums for about a year and have noticed the stagnation of the forums and the general ADRIFT scene as a whole. Crappily constructed games, stretched few and far between, lower the morale and life of the scene. So I say let's bring it all back! We can't just sit around and bitch about the current condition of things.

As an example, I have a cousin who is currently at U of I majoring in creative writing. Let me tell you - this girl can write. I can only imagine what wonders she would unleash if only she knew about ADRIFT.

So let's up the ante! If anyone has personal websites, post a link to the main site, dedicate a page to ADRIFT, stick a paragraph about IF in there, whatever. Anyone with Myspace or Facebook, same thing - links, banners, articles, the works. Tell your friends! Tell your family! Tell your hated enemies! We have to get more people into the scene, seriously.

I know I've already gotten my girlfriend into drifting (not creating games mind you, but she loves to play them), and I just e-mailed my cousin about it not 5 minutes ago.

Another point - I'm sure many people drift on to the main site, download a few adventures, and quit shortly after because of the poor quality / unfinished state of many of the games. The main site would benefit from some sort of filter - "Gold" games (which have been highly rated by us drifters) should be in a category all their own, with "Standard", "WIPs", etc. as well. Or something along those lines.

Veteran members, don't give up! Visit the forums and post regularly! Nothing gets done if everyone does nothing. Inform and TADS are for code monkeys and social rejects - for those of us who do not live in a computerized cave, calculating algorithms and seeing code strings in our sleep, ADRIFT is the answer! LET'S MAKE THIS KNOWN!

I, for one, am going to tell everyone I know about ADRIFT, create an animated gif banner that I will pass around and slap on to as many websites as I can, and work diligently on my quality game.

This is the battle cry, guys. Let's open up the generator, post on the forums, and pass the knowledge on.

Or you can sit in your caves and let ADRIFT fade away into the shadow of the Inform bully.
Released adventures :
- A Witch Tale (OddComp)

Currently working on :
- The Lighthouse (a horror story collaboration with Quantumsheep)
- A Witch Tale (expanded version)
- Clepsydra
TDS
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Post by TDS »

The lack of responses lead me to believe must of us would rather sit in our caves and fade away...

*sob*
Cowboy
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Post by Cowboy »

I'm joining... Not the Marines, but the Adrift fighters ;)
Dan, I really like your post and I couldn't agree more.
I can't give a reason why the world of Adrift is slow. I wish you had been here just a year or so back.. Wow, things were really cooking. But even if real life has caught up with some of the old Drifters, there are still some of us left.
I don't know why the world of Adrift is turning dull.
Some say that it's because of the V.5 and people are just waiting for it to be released. Well, I don't agree. I have been waiting for the V.5 too but when I found out that it was being postponed time after time (no offense Campbell, i really appericiate the work you put into it.) I turned back to the old version and continued to create my game there.
Maybe it is a matter of real life getting in the way for many of the veterans. I mean people get married, have kids and so on. People get jobs and suddenly they don't have the same amount of time for Drifting as they used to.
Another thing is that I feel it's a bit of our own fault. People are not very nice about writing feedback on games... and from the authors ponit of view it's a bit of a killer having spent a lot of time (I'm talking about serious games here...) creating a game, and it's not even mentioned anywhere.
Like you Dan, I say.. let's fight.... "Semper Fi"

Does anyone know if there's is a group on Facebook about Adrift?
Ghost town V 1,05: Adrift best game of the year award 2009
WIP:
"Through Time" Idle
"D-Day" Prog rep: Feb 16
Char: 5 Events: 5 Tasks: 185 Objects: 156 Rooms: 34... Size 47Kb
David Whyld
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Post by David Whyld »

To be honest, I don’t see things picking up until Adrift 5 finally comes out, and maybe not even then. Hopefully its eventual release will see a big upturn in the amount of activity here and we might have people actually showing an interest in what Adrift can do again, instead of just twiddling their thumbs and gazing longingly at the TADS/Inform camps.

Or maybe not. Part of me wonders if the continual delay of Adrift 5’s release date – third quarter 2006 was when it was supposed to come out originally – has just killed the Adrift scene stone dead. People will only wait so long for something, no matter how much they're anticipating it, and if the release date gets put back enough times, and updates are few and far between, they’ll just switch to something else. No one will wait forever.

Take me, for example. I used to have huge amounts of enthusiasm for Adrift and could quite happily harp on about it for hours to anyone who’d listen. These days? I find it harder and harder to give a damn. I was originally looking forward to Adrift 5 with a great deal of anticipation, figuring it would allow me to write games of TADS/Inform complexity without the need to learn a programming language. I had ambitious projects all ready and waiting to be written as soon as Adrift 5 came out. But the deadline slipped back. And then it slipped again. And again. Two years later we’re still waiting and there have only been three or four updates in that entire time. Serious question to any of the old school Adrift crowd still here: if you were thinking of using a new system and it was continually delayed like this, would you bother waiting for it?

So I say to Campbell, while we still have a few people left using Adrift, if you're going to release Adrift 5, just release it already. If not, then scrap it and be done with it. Make the current version of Adrift the final one and just look towards improving that. I'm sure a lot of the ideas you have for Adrift 5 could be incorporated into Adrift 4 and incremental releases, adding a few new features each time, would at least let people know there is still some life in Adrift.
ralphmerridew
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Post by ralphmerridew »

ADRIFT 4 can not be incrementally updated to Tier 1. The foundation is just too far off.
Bloodhounds can make you laugh and cuss in the same breath. They are endearing, faithful, and can sling drool ten feet in any direction. -- Virginia Lanier
David Whyld
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Post by David Whyld »

I never said it could. I said incremental releases which added a few new features each time.
ralphmerridew
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Post by ralphmerridew »

Most of the features are probably dependent on fixing the foundation.
Bloodhounds can make you laugh and cuss in the same breath. They are endearing, faithful, and can sling drool ten feet in any direction. -- Virginia Lanier
Cowboy
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Post by Cowboy »

ralphmerridew wrote:ADRIFT 4 can not be incrementally updated to Tier 1. The foundation is just too far off.
What is Tier 1 ? (soory for my ignorance)

As for David, I quite see his point. but still it should be the joy and fun of making games that would keep people doing it rather than having a new generator (V.5)
I too am waiting impatiently, but that haven't stopped me from continuing working on my game.

I kind og agree with you David.. Maybe Campbell should release V.5 as it is....
The reason I started the thread "Reminder" was that I hoped that Campbell would give us an update on how things are looking regarding V.5

I will finish Ghost town using Adrift 4, hoping that V.5 will be our when I start my next project. I for one is not giving up on Adrift. I have wanted to write games for too long...

But yes, Campbell.. Could you please thow these hungry dogs a little bone? ;)
Ghost town V 1,05: Adrift best game of the year award 2009
WIP:
"Through Time" Idle
"D-Day" Prog rep: Feb 16
Char: 5 Events: 5 Tasks: 185 Objects: 156 Rooms: 34... Size 47Kb
ralphmerridew
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Post by ralphmerridew »

Loosely, "Tier 1" refers to the most powerful IF-targeted languages, including TADS, Inform, Hugo, and possibly Alan.
Bloodhounds can make you laugh and cuss in the same breath. They are endearing, faithful, and can sling drool ten feet in any direction. -- Virginia Lanier
Dan Blazquez
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Post by Dan Blazquez »

Honestly, I don't see what the big fuss over ADRIFT 5 is. Why does it matter? As far as we're concerned, it doesn't exist, so why worry about it?

I've messed with the generator enough to know that there are so many possibilities - changing the ALR, tasks setting off events which can set off other tasks, variables (the amount of things that can be done with variables is amazing - sometimes I cross my fingers just hoping that the runner [or my computer] doesn't explode), etc. I have yet to see a game that TRULY harnesses the full capabilities of ADRIFT 4 except maybe PK Girl.

Why worry about "incremental updates" or "new versions"? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the version we currently have - PK Girl is the prime example.

When the adventures link in the main site is chock full of games that reach or exceed PK Girl quality, THEN it's time for a new version. Until then, instead of whining about a lack of updates, let's just play around and master what we have instead of wishing for something better...

And to David : This doesn't really pertain to you, seeing as you've released so many (and some of them great) games. Your new ambitious projects probably cannot be done in v4. Perhaps, though, it might be better for you to channel that ambition into creating the ultimate v4 game, one that dwarfs PK Girl in scope? No point being ambitious without a medium to represent it.

But for the rest of us, we haven't even maxed the capabilities of 4 yet, so there is no excuse for us to lag and sag like this simply because a new version is on the theoretical horizon.
Released adventures :
- A Witch Tale (OddComp)

Currently working on :
- The Lighthouse (a horror story collaboration with Quantumsheep)
- A Witch Tale (expanded version)
- Clepsydra
David Whyld
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Post by David Whyld »

The big problem is that when Campbell announced Adrift 5 way back in December 2005, a lot of people put their works in progress on hold in readiness for it. (Probably a bad idea but it still happened.) Then when the third quarter 2006 release date passed with no sign of Adrift 5, I guess they got fed up of the waiting. I can't say I really blame them. When something shiny and new is promised, why carry on using the old system? Even if there's nothing essentially wrong with the old system, the promise of something new is a hard lure to resist, particularly when the release might be just around the corner. And when the new system is delayed again and again, and so few updates as to its progress are given, it's not hard to understand why people become disheartened with it. After a two year delay, it's no small wonder people haven't chose to keep on waiting.

The thing that annoys me more than anything, though, isn't Adrift 5's delay (I'm not even sure I'll be using it when it first comes out anyway), but Campbell's lack of response to people's queries about it. I'd have thought he'd be only too eager to assure people that it's still being worked on and still marked for a future release, but all you get is... a few very vague hints every now and then and silence the rest of the time. It beats me why he doesn't seem to care more that the Adrift community he built is dwindling. After all, who's going to lose the most if Adrift 5 comes out if no one is still around to use it?
ralphmerridew
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Post by ralphmerridew »

The real problem with ADRIFT isn't adding fancy features; it's things so fundamental, like correct disambiguation, that they are taken for granted in other systems.
Bloodhounds can make you laugh and cuss in the same breath. They are endearing, faithful, and can sling drool ten feet in any direction. -- Virginia Lanier
Dan Blazquez
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Post by Dan Blazquez »

You both make excellent points.

rw - True, the v4 parser isn't the best... even Zork had a more sophisticated parser, and that was released 25 years ago! But the difference between "take it" and "take the hatchet" is really not a big deal. And I personally don't have a problem typing "drop the hatchet" and then "take the cake" and then "go north" as opposed to "drop the hatchet, take the cake and go north" which would be possible in a more advanced parser. I can understand that it is a small hindrance and adds frustration, but it is negligible. It's the same as using a remote to flip channels or getting up and hitting the buttons on the TV: same result, different method. We're just splitting hairs here. The relatively primitive parser is no excuse to abandon the software.

DWhyld - Ah, yes: the carrot on the stick. Once you've chased the carrot long enough and realize that it is out of reach, do you still continue to chase the carrot? Or would you be satisfied digging them up like you've always done before?




Edited By Dan Blazquez on 1220311001
Released adventures :
- A Witch Tale (OddComp)

Currently working on :
- The Lighthouse (a horror story collaboration with Quantumsheep)
- A Witch Tale (expanded version)
- Clepsydra
Dan Blazquez
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:46 am
Points: 10
Location: US

Post by Dan Blazquez »

Ha! Now I've turned ADRIFT into a carrot, and we are all the bunnies...
Released adventures :
- A Witch Tale (OddComp)

Currently working on :
- The Lighthouse (a horror story collaboration with Quantumsheep)
- A Witch Tale (expanded version)
- Clepsydra
ralphmerridew
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Post by ralphmerridew »

It's not even a matter of how complex of commands are understood. ADRIFT makes it very easy to accidentally have "read diary" and "read book" do different things, when the diary is the only book in scope. ADRIFT pretends it understands commands ("You push, but nothing happens.") when it doesn't.
Bloodhounds can make you laugh and cuss in the same breath. They are endearing, faithful, and can sling drool ten feet in any direction. -- Virginia Lanier
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